Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
04-11-2009, 09:51 AM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
I alway's remember telling people in the past to go with the 50 when asked. I have really changed my mind in general. Obviously it depends on what you want to do. But for Deer size game you cant go wrong with a 45caiber Muzzleloader at 1/30 twist.
What made me think of this was velocity today at the range. I was shooting 200grn SST'S at 2530fps at 100yds with excellant accuracy. I was also shooting the 200grn Lehigh Hollow point with excellant accuracy. The SST Won today. The Deer wouldnt know the difference. I think the main reason was because it was windy. The little better BC i bet helps in the wind.
Anyway, that bullet is realy moving. The closest i can come with a 50cal with same bullet is like 2300fps. 200fps doesnt sound like much. I bet at 200 and 300yds it's huge. maybe someone on here can tell me. I actually think the 2oogrn SST is better then the 250. Of course that's a matter of opinion. Not that much of a difference to argue one way or the other.
The down side to the 45cal muzzleloaders are, who makes them? I'm not sure that there are to many being made and if they are good. Knight Disc Elite is no longer made, the Whites are no longer made. Is CVA the only factory one left still being made? I do see Knight still makes the extreme in 45caliber. I hear people complain about T/C'S 45caliber Encore, but has someone tried it with Harvester or mmp sabots? Is the Encore tweeked already? Heck, the 50cal needs tweeked. Why wouldnt the 45cal? That's the way i see it.
I guess my inexperience with 45's kept me from reccomending them. With light bullets it makes the 50cal look anemic as far as velocity. The 45 smokes the 50. I'm sure there are alot of people that like the 175 and 195 Barnes. How about PR Bullets 200 and 220grn 40cal bullets? Alot of options for the 45cal ML no doubt.[/align]
What made me think of this was velocity today at the range. I was shooting 200grn SST'S at 2530fps at 100yds with excellant accuracy. I was also shooting the 200grn Lehigh Hollow point with excellant accuracy. The SST Won today. The Deer wouldnt know the difference. I think the main reason was because it was windy. The little better BC i bet helps in the wind.
Anyway, that bullet is realy moving. The closest i can come with a 50cal with same bullet is like 2300fps. 200fps doesnt sound like much. I bet at 200 and 300yds it's huge. maybe someone on here can tell me. I actually think the 2oogrn SST is better then the 250. Of course that's a matter of opinion. Not that much of a difference to argue one way or the other.
The down side to the 45cal muzzleloaders are, who makes them? I'm not sure that there are to many being made and if they are good. Knight Disc Elite is no longer made, the Whites are no longer made. Is CVA the only factory one left still being made? I do see Knight still makes the extreme in 45caliber. I hear people complain about T/C'S 45caliber Encore, but has someone tried it with Harvester or mmp sabots? Is the Encore tweeked already? Heck, the 50cal needs tweeked. Why wouldnt the 45cal? That's the way i see it.
I guess my inexperience with 45's kept me from reccomending them. With light bullets it makes the 50cal look anemic as far as velocity. The 45 smokes the 50. I'm sure there are alot of people that like the 175 and 195 Barnes. How about PR Bullets 200 and 220grn 40cal bullets? Alot of options for the 45cal ML no doubt.[/align]
04-11-2009, 10:34 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
Grouse45
It really is an easy decision for me, the 50 wins hands down...
1) Idaho regualtions indicate the smallest bullet size for big game during ML season .428
2) I have the opportunity to hunt both or all five - whitetail, Mule, Elk, Black Bear, & Moose, so the 50 for me is a better all-around.
3) There are still more options available for the 50 cal.
It really is an easy decision for me, the 50 wins hands down...
1) Idaho regualtions indicate the smallest bullet size for big game during ML season .428
2) I have the opportunity to hunt both or all five - whitetail, Mule, Elk, Black Bear, & Moose, so the 50 for me is a better all-around.
3) There are still more options available for the 50 cal.
04-11-2009, 11:32 AM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 272
RE: Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
I ve been looking at a winchester apex in 45 cal. For a couple mths now, So Ive asked myself the same question. I think the 50 gives you more options, But if you want to push a 180 or 200 grain bullet 2500 fps then go with the 45.
04-11-2009, 12:28 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 1,408
RE: Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
The 50 wins due to sheer flexibility and popularity. You can just do so much more with it. However, if you're going to specialize in longer-range shooting and focus on .357 or .40cal bullets pushed as fast as you can (and they indeed still show accuracy at the highest velocities) then a 45 is just fine or better ballistically.
I'd add a .45 to my lineup if I got to shoot enough lately to have time to work up multiple guns. Right now working up my long range and short range 50s is all I have time for at the range despite that range being in my backyard. Plus, I am not aware of a production .45 right now that I'd pay for.
The 250 SW is the worst of the lineup. Ballistically inferior to both the 200 and 300, and performance on game is fine but not as controlled as either of its brothers. I think the longer-for-caliber design of both the 200 and 300 help hold them together in the non-bonded designs than the 250.
I'll stick with the 200 unless this FTX thing works out, ballistically they look good but I have to shoot a few deer to make up my mind on performance. I know Grouse doesn't like them but I have to shoot a few to make up my own mind. I've shot very few bullets I didn't find acceptable.
I'd add a .45 to my lineup if I got to shoot enough lately to have time to work up multiple guns. Right now working up my long range and short range 50s is all I have time for at the range despite that range being in my backyard. Plus, I am not aware of a production .45 right now that I'd pay for.
The 250 SW is the worst of the lineup. Ballistically inferior to both the 200 and 300, and performance on game is fine but not as controlled as either of its brothers. I think the longer-for-caliber design of both the 200 and 300 help hold them together in the non-bonded designs than the 250.
I'll stick with the 200 unless this FTX thing works out, ballistically they look good but I have to shoot a few deer to make up my mind on performance. I know Grouse doesn't like them but I have to shoot a few to make up my own mind. I've shot very few bullets I didn't find acceptable.
04-11-2009, 12:52 PM
#6
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
The .50 caliber in my opinion is the right choice FOR ME. And I want to justify that. Where I hunt, a long shot is maybe 75 yards unless I hunt the hay fields. Even then 150 yards. At those distances, the difference in velocity between the two calibers would never be noticed. Also where I hunt I need something to plant them where they stand. If they run off in the tangle, I am in for a long day.
So I shoot a .50 with a large sabot or conical. My hopes are with the larger bullet at close ranges I can produce a higher energy transfer. One reason I like my Whites.
Now if I were out west antelope or mule deerhunting, this might be totally a different case. Were the distances more extreme, I could see the advantage of a .45 with a faster moving projectile.
Also I want to add, if your .45 caliber rifle can not shoot that .45 with some extreme velocity, then there is no benefit over the .50. Even at long ranges. For instances, if your rifles best load is 80 grains of powder and a 200 grain sabot in .45 caliber, I do not see the advantage.
.45 caliber round ball shooters for years depended on their pin point accuracy, to put that smaller ball through the heart or lungs of the deer they hunt.
I just like big lead.
So I shoot a .50 with a large sabot or conical. My hopes are with the larger bullet at close ranges I can produce a higher energy transfer. One reason I like my Whites.
Now if I were out west antelope or mule deerhunting, this might be totally a different case. Were the distances more extreme, I could see the advantage of a .45 with a faster moving projectile.
Also I want to add, if your .45 caliber rifle can not shoot that .45 with some extreme velocity, then there is no benefit over the .50. Even at long ranges. For instances, if your rifles best load is 80 grains of powder and a 200 grain sabot in .45 caliber, I do not see the advantage.
.45 caliber round ball shooters for years depended on their pin point accuracy, to put that smaller ball through the heart or lungs of the deer they hunt.
I just like big lead.
04-11-2009, 01:25 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
ORIGINAL: Grouse45
I alway's remember telling people in the past to go with the 50 when asked. I have really changed my mind in general. Obviously it depends on what you want to do. But for Deer size game you cant go wrong with a 45caiber Muzzleloader at 1/30 twist.
What made me think of this was velocity today at the range. I was shooting 200grn SST'S at 2530fps at 100yds with excellant accuracy. I was also shooting the 200grn Lehigh Hollow point with excellant accuracy. The SST Won today. The Deer wouldnt know the difference. I think the main reason was because it was windy. The little better BC i bet helps in the wind.
Anyway, that bullet is realy moving. The closest i can come with a 50cal with same bullet is like 2300fps. 200fps doesnt sound like much. I bet at 200 and 300yds it's huge. maybe someone on here can tell me. I actually think the 2oogrn SST is better then the 250. Of course that's a matter of opinion. Not that much of a difference to argue one way or the other.
The down side to the 45cal muzzleloaders are, who makes them? I'm not sure that there are to many being made and if they are good. Knight Disc Elite is no longer made, the Whites are no longer made. Is CVA the only factory one left still being made? I do see Knight still makes the extreme in 45caliber. I hear people complain about T/C'S 45caliber Encore, but has someone tried it with Harvester or mmp sabots? Is the Encore tweeked already? Heck, the 50cal needs tweeked. Why wouldnt the 45cal? That's the way i see it.
I guess my inexperience with 45's kept me from reccomending them. With light bullets it makes the 50cal look anemic as far as velocity. The 45 smokes the 50. I'm sure there are alot of people that like the 175 and 195 Barnes. How about PR Bullets 200 and 220grn 40cal bullets? Alot of options for the 45cal ML no doubt.
[/align]
I alway's remember telling people in the past to go with the 50 when asked. I have really changed my mind in general. Obviously it depends on what you want to do. But for Deer size game you cant go wrong with a 45caiber Muzzleloader at 1/30 twist.
What made me think of this was velocity today at the range. I was shooting 200grn SST'S at 2530fps at 100yds with excellant accuracy. I was also shooting the 200grn Lehigh Hollow point with excellant accuracy. The SST Won today. The Deer wouldnt know the difference. I think the main reason was because it was windy. The little better BC i bet helps in the wind.
Anyway, that bullet is realy moving. The closest i can come with a 50cal with same bullet is like 2300fps. 200fps doesnt sound like much. I bet at 200 and 300yds it's huge. maybe someone on here can tell me. I actually think the 2oogrn SST is better then the 250. Of course that's a matter of opinion. Not that much of a difference to argue one way or the other.
The down side to the 45cal muzzleloaders are, who makes them? I'm not sure that there are to many being made and if they are good. Knight Disc Elite is no longer made, the Whites are no longer made. Is CVA the only factory one left still being made? I do see Knight still makes the extreme in 45caliber. I hear people complain about T/C'S 45caliber Encore, but has someone tried it with Harvester or mmp sabots? Is the Encore tweeked already? Heck, the 50cal needs tweeked. Why wouldnt the 45cal? That's the way i see it.
I guess my inexperience with 45's kept me from reccomending them. With light bullets it makes the 50cal look anemic as far as velocity. The 45 smokes the 50. I'm sure there are alot of people that like the 175 and 195 Barnes. How about PR Bullets 200 and 220grn 40cal bullets? Alot of options for the 45cal ML no doubt.
[/align]
"if ya wanny shoot long then buy a 45 and shoot BH and buy 200g pointy bullet and your on your way".
So Grourse I gotta hand it to you, you got some wisdom in that mind of yours, and I thank you for bringing that to our (my)attention. Now lets see if Cayugad buys a .45 Disc and sets up a 200 range. I know you have seen over on Doug's that Harely is shooting his Savage 45 500 yards and holding 5" groups, so can the 45 with BH shoot 300, heck no problem, you have shown that in my mind with the velocity your getting on your chrony. Blessings.
I think in 10 years the western "long and far" shooters will be shooting the 45, and the back east woods hunters will be shooting the 50. The "old boyz" will still be shooting their 50.
Chap
04-11-2009, 04:07 PM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
RE: Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
I guess I can put in my 2 cents too. I've always been a 50 cal fan. It was all I owned. But recently (in the past year or so) I've acquired two .45s. Now these are both sidelocks (a Renegade and a Hawken). Now don't get me wrong, the 50 cals can shoot with the right load, but the 45s, to me, do tend to have a bit of an accuracy edge at the longer distances. But I am like Cayugad in my hunting situation. A long shot for me is 50 yds for the most part. And I don't think any deer is going to notice the difference if I put my bullet in the right spot. Now if I was going for something big and nasty I would definately lean toward the 50, or even a 54. Something that has a lot of frontal mass and immediate energy transfer.
04-11-2009, 06:33 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 591
RE: Is a 50caliber Muzzleloader better then a 45caliber?
50s best, especially for a starter IMO. More available and wider varieties of supplies. I wouldn't mind a nice 45 to play with small caliber bullets and long range shooting though. Maybe I'll look into that sometime...