Gunwerks muzzy
 

After watching the "Best of the West" hunting show on tv I checked out the gunwerks rifles on there website. They are coming out with a 500 yd. muzzleloader. I did a little calculating and figured a 250 gr. bullet will need to be traveling at 2300 f.p.s. to have enough energy to kill a deer,(thats at the 800 f.p.e. some claim is needed). The bullet would need a .300 b.c.. A 200 gr., .300 b.c. bullet would need to be traveling about 2550 f.p.s. By the looks of the prices on there other 2 rifles it seems it would cost no less than maybe $2500 to purchase. Would you spend the money if you could to obtain those yardages? I would just be more interested in the bullet they come up with. Right now I'm not aware of any muzzy bullets with a b.c. near .30



http://www.gunwerks.com/Products

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

I would not buy it or use it. To me that is not muzzleloading that is rifle hunting.Don't get me wrong i'm trying
to push some distance with mine but no where near that.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

That kind of rifle would not work for me. While it might be fun to own, it would have really no value other then target shooting. First off, where I hunt 50 yards is the average shot. I can do that with a roundball rifle.

Also, there comes a point where muzzleloader shooters and hunters have to send a message to some of these companies thatwe do not want a rifle like that. Those are the kind of rifles that people with different agendas then we have, and uninformed people with power (like politicians)are able to make changes to our sport that in the long run damage our sport.

If a person wants to shoot that far, use a center fire. If you want to get up close and personal then use a muzzleloader.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

I agree 100% with Cayugad. That is one reason why I enjoy ML and archery hunting. I like being able to get up close and personal to the game. Sometimes its the stalk (if I am still hunting) that I enjoy and when I get close enough its over and I don't even shoot. Sort of like catch and release hunting. Of course there are times when I've seen a whopper and just never closed the deal because of range or cover. But that's the fun in it all.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

The longest shots I take are on the range at 250 yard gong. There is quite possibly places on the open plans or in the mountains where you might want maximum range. As long as I can hit the 6 inch gong at 250 yds the possibility of more range has no lure for me. With the exception of one place the average shot around here is 25 yds in the woods and in the fields if you can not get with in 250 yds then find an old hunter to teach you some things. Lee

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

Those long range shots they make are intriging but in my eye, unethical. Now I've watched the show and I saw them take pronghorn at 1000 yds a bighorn at 745 yds. And took them cleanly. Of course they only show the hits. Editing is a wonderful thing. At those distances, the animal doesn't know what's going on if you miss. He sees a puff of dust orwhatever. It may startle him but I don't think it will spook him.
It may be fun to shoot paper at those ranges or vermin like ground hogs or prairie dogs. But a game animal deserves more respect than that. At least in my eye.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

I wouldn't shoot that far with a CF let alone a ML. No I wouldn't buy one.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

Not my cup-o-tea. Don't have even a little desire for one.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

For that price think of how many other ones you can buy.:D

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

That type of rifle is already available and being put to good use. It is the "Bad Bull" that is already doing it, it is a .45 and they recommend the Parker 275 Gr. I believe.

IMHO It is never good for any gun owner to bad mouth another's dream gun or any fire arm out there. We are one big group of gun owners and enjoyers! and just because your interest and current hunting condition might not warrant a current product. to bad mouth or to limit any, is a restriction on our right to bear arms, but I know you GFIs already know this.

This statement says it all limited thinking! Quote " That kind of rifle would not work for me. While it might be fun to own, it would have really no value other then target shooting. First off, where I hunt 50 yards is the average shot. I can do that with a roundball rifle. "


The rifle certainly would work for you, you just wouldn't have need for it's total potential. IMHO I believe any statement like the above is bad for all Gun owners period.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

Good point screw. I guess we never thought of it from that angle. Point taken.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

I'm not sure I agree Screwbolts. There's a difference between saying "that rifle is no good" and "that rifle is not for me".

When a guy says he doesn't need such a rifle because he hunts in thick stuff with 50 yard shots he's merely stating a fact, not denigrating the gun or anyone who might want one.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

+1 to what half nuts said.
Art

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

I have a gun specifically set up for longer range shooting -- sheer population control of does is a major concern in both areas I hunt and whatever you can do to accomplish it does nothing but help the herd.

I have a gun specifically set up for shorter range shooting -- I have always loved hunting with iron sights and especially peep sights but it is useless for long range work which I often need.

That being said, I rarely use the long range gun during muzzleloading season. Not that I would feel guilty, but if I am still hunting that late in the year it usually means I've taken all the "necessary" deer and I am finally out there just for the fun of it and don't care too much if I have to pass a 200 yd shot.

I really shy away from trying to tell people how they should hunt or what rules they should be following, or claim who is hurting our sport (as if MLing can be defined as narrowly as one sport). A great example would be scopes -- personally I think that, unless you have eye issues that prevent you from shooting irons, it's a waste to put a scope on a gun not meant to shoot over 100 yards and if you're really in it for the sport you should not mount a scope on such a gun. I also feel it is especially bad to start youngsters out on scopes as the basics of marksmanship are much better learned on irons. And as for getting on the bad side of politicians, ANY MLer is a 300+ yd gun if you put a scope on it,a nice heavy conical will whack a deer further than that if you have a scope to accurately compensate for the drop. It's not huge powder charges or inline ignition you have to worry about, scopes make it all possible.

Clearly that viewpoint would ruffle some feathers here if I tried to tell what would be the majority of you that you are wrong because you're not doing it my way. We could argue for pages on who is right and wrong. The truth is they are just differences of opinion, and nobody can prove there is one right way or wrong way and we're better sticking together and enjoying talking about what we have in common rather than nitpicking the differences. This is why I've never voiced it -- I'd rather talk about what we have in common than bicker about what is, in the end, just my opinion.

Real politics are depressing enough right now, I don't think we need ML politics on top of it...

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

Well Spaniel,everything you said is WRONG and I can prove it. PROOF: I totally agree with you, and I'm usually wrong. :D:D

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

i,m with Cayugad on this one. Have not mademanyshots over 100 yards with a muzzleloader.Most of my shots on deer and hogs have been up close and personal, 50 yards or less.Many times ayear i am asked by some hunter to help find a hog, deer or elk that was wounded. Many of those animals are shot well outside of the shooters ability to cleanly dispatch the animal.

Sooner or later some state is going to get bent out of shape and outlaw inline muzzleloaders.

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

Not as long as States collect and extra fee for thelicense. Heck, Louisiana and Mississippi switched their muzzle loader season to a"Primitive Weapons" season. Here's a section from theprimitive weapons regulation here in Louisiana. It's the same in Mississippi.

[align=left][/align]

Quote:

---

SINGLE SHOT BREECHLOADING RIFLES WHICH ARE PRIMITIVE WEAPONS:
Sharps rifles or replicas
Remington Rollingblock rifles or replicas
Ballard rifles
Maynard rifles or carbines
Burnside carbines
Frank Wesson rifles
Farrow rifles
Remington Hepburn rifles
M1873 – 1888 Springfield (Trapdoor) Rifles and Carbines and replicas
Snider (British) rifles or replicas
Wesson & Harrington 1871 Rifles
New England Firearms or Harrington & Richardson Handi Rifles in caliber larger than .38
Winchester M1885 Hi Wall or Lo Wall rifles or replicas (Also Browning B78 or 1885) .38 or larger
Knight KP-1 in caliber .38 or larger
[align=left]CVA Optima Elite in caliber .38 or larger
Traditions Pursuit break-open single shot in .38 caliber or larger [/align]

---

[align=left]I have a Browning 1885 45-70, but last hunting season carried my Mustang, GP Flintlock, or .58 Zouave for most of the season - even the regular gun season. [/align][align=left][/align]

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

Da haveI missed something? Didn't New Idea Ho (Idaho for the cultured.) just pass a rule a year or acouple of yearsago outlawing inlines for Muzzle loader season? Wasn't there a big rageing debate with the side lock round ball shooters over the ethics of useing an inline?

Myself if you can afford it and it is legal under YOUR states laws then buy what ever you want to hunt with.
There was a debate in Michigan recently about taking away two weeks of bow season here in for what some person named aPrimitive season or add a couple of weeks in January.
When the servey came back it didn't have but 4 % support. Most said if you want to hunt with a recurve you have all of bow season, firearm season and Muzzle loader season to do it. If you want to hunt with a flint lock you have 2 weeks of rifle season and another 2 weeks of Muzzle loader season (zone 1 & 2).

So hunt with any legal weapon you wish to hunt with and can afford. But don't try to take my right away to do the same just because I don't have the desire to hunt like you do with the weapon you use.

No I would not buy one or I would already own an Ultmate Muzzle loader.

:) Al

RE: Gunwerks muzzy
 

This is exactly my point -- "inline" is a COSMETIC distinction, not a meaningfully functional one. As long as it is legal to put a scope on it and it has a fast enough twist to shoot conicals, it is a 300yd gun in the proper hands. I can tell you right now if Indiana outlawed inlines I'd get a sidelock rated for magnum charges, with a fast enough twist for sabots or a nice heavy conical, put a scope on it, and keep on doing what I do.

The anti-inline stuff is simply put out there for people who want seasons for authentic LOOKING guns, everything else is an excuse unless you eliminate scopes, sabots, limit twist rate, etc. I liken it to the Clinton-era assault weapons ban, which was equally ineffective since it made limitations based on things that were more cosmetic (bayonet lugs etc) than really addressing function.

Some day I'll get a more old school ML with a globe front and Vernier rear sight and have some iron sight fun at long range (just targets).