gleason.chapman

Lets do it again at 1900 fps, and take a look at the ballistics. Now we are almost 4" high at 100,
and over 5" low at 200. More importantly the load after 150 yards had dropped below the magic 800 fpe for effective kill. I am not saying it won't kill at that range, but most ballistics people consider that the minimum. Thin skinned deer broadside your fine, hitting bone your in trouble. So hope that answers your question.
Chap

gleason.chapman

Somewhere I wrote up and posted "How to use a ballistics Program", you should search for that via your best computer friend "Google" or on the search on this site, which is not that good.
Chap

MountainDevil54

FPE= modern day crap to sell bullets.

gleason.chapman

Well it is an objective measurement that is universally used by bullet makers and ballistic programs to give a floor for shooter and categories of game you can use for a given bullet. If they say on my new RWS Panther .177 air gun that it can kill to 525 yards then certainly a 50 cal ML bullet hitting an animal with 400 fpe, which is 1/2 the common floor value of 800 fpe is gonna kill a deer, they are really not that hard to kill in general. As bullets have gone faster and faster over the years, I have noted the jump from 800 fpe to 1000 fpe by writers and bullet makers, so there is a lot of truth in your statement, the extra 200 fpe does nothing to kill better. The chase for speed and distance has come primarily from the CF rifle community and betterbullets from that community. However on the lower end the difference between 200 fpe and 400 fpe is significant for penetration in my opinion and that is what is need to kill a deer---12" is the minimum for quick humane kills. Now i know 3" into the vitals in the heart area will of course kill, so don't think this is gospel. What is meant by 12" is that if you get 12" of penetration with expansion, that there is a lot higher chance of a quick kill. As hunters we want quick human kills, this maximizes recovery, we also want low meat loss, both of those things are working against each other in bulletdesign and fpe is sorta one way to get some idea of force delivered at target.

Energy = Weight times Velocity Squared divided by 450395 (fixed constant).





The Taylor Index is another attempt to measure this, because some believe fpe is biased toward "small fast bullets", because velocity is >>>squared<<< in the fpe formula that is true, it is NOT squared in the Taylor index.

TI = bw/7000*v*DI (2)
Where:
TI = Taylor Index
bw = Bullet weight, grs
v = bullet velocity, f.p.s.
DI = Bullet diameter, inches

This index is claimed to be biased toward "large diameter bullets" because of the DI in the formula:

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/July02.htm

Bullet makers have to give "categories of game" that the bullet will work on. Anyway, I agree with you if your a "knowledgable hunter", but what about a new person just coming into hunting and has "no clue", we were all like that in MLing, at least I was.
Best Wishes,
Chap

cherokee75

1eybuck,
Try 2 pyrodex pellets and the 300 grain non bonded SWs.

SWThomas

HEY CHAP! When did Shockey give that interview?

rafsob

I too have shot a maybe a dozen deer with the shockwave, both using the 250 & 300gr bullets. I have used it in my Encore and NEF Sidekick from as close as 40 yds. out to 140 yds. with great results. I get a small hole going in and a large hole going out. No problem with expansion. Don't know what else Icanask for. I am still using this bullet and will doso till I findanother one that is better. Most accurate ML bullet that I have sound to date, for me.

Now I am using a Barnes expander sabot in my Hawkens Carbine and it is awesome. However, I have yet to try any longrange shooting with it. That will be a project for me in the near future.

gleason.chapman

It was about 8 or 10 years ago, it use to be here on Cabelas:

http://www.cabelas.com/index.jsp;jsessionid=VMZJ4SHY0AST3LAQBBJCCNNMCAEFG IWE?_requestid=48742

but they deleted it. I will ask their web master at Cabelas where the moved it to. I spoke to Jim at the 2004 Eastern Penna Outdoor show about bullets/penetration and Noslers in particular. He said he liked getting close (< 100) that they were the right combination of expansion and penetration for him on everything from Bears and mooseto big whitetails. Chap

SWThomas

Cool. I was just wondering why he was recommending Pyrodex pellets when his face is on the APP Shockey Gold bottle. But that interview was probably done before he signed the deal with APP.

1eyebuck

I was told the SW is the same as Hornady so I looked at their ballistic chart. While it doesn't show the 200 the 250 is doing 2250 fps and the 300 at somewhere around 2000. That's very odd that the 300 and 250SW would be going faster than a 200 especially when I can hear the 300 and 200 hitting the target at 100 well after the shot. The 200 is almost an immediate sound. Well once again thank you so much for all your information. This is why I got into black powder shooting because everyone is very helpful!