Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

The recent posts on sidelock shooting by a couple of forum members got me itching to do a little sidelock shooting.

A couple of months ago I bought a box of .40 caliber 200 grain XTP's and Harvester 45/40 sabotsto to try in the .45 caliber Green Mountain barrel I have for the Renegade.
The barrel is the LRH (Long Range Hunter) model with a 1:30" twist. I have a Simmons4X ProDiamond scope mounted on it.





I planned to shoot a wide range of powder loads, so I figured I would go withthree-shot groups instead of my regular five-shot groups, and shoot everything over the chronograph.
Most of the shooting was at 50 yards to save on walking,and because I was mostly interested in getting velocity readings.

Just for the heck of it I started off with a real light charge of60 grains of T7 FFG. Here's the target.




With that heavy 1" .45 caliber barrel this load shot like a .22 rimfire. If the gun didn't go bang and make smoke you would hardly know it went off.
The velocity was right around what I expected - like a real hot pistol load, but the group was much larger that what I expected.

I wiped with one side of one alcohol patch between those shots, and all of the other shooting in this session.

The charge was increased to 70 grains for the next round. Here's the target.




Again, hardly any recoil and a100 fps jump in velocity. Man, I really like that ProDiamond scope. Gonna' have to mount one on the Renegade's .54 caliber slow twist barrel.

Upped the charge another 10 grains to 80 grains and shot three more.




OK! Another 100 fps jump in velocity and a pretty good group. Now we're getting into the range of a hunting load.
Recoil still pretty light, but at least you know you're shooting.

Next up - 90 grains. Here's the target.




I had a slight hangfire with shot #1. I don't think I moved but well could have. I wonder if I would have had a one-hole group without the hangfire.
Still a pretty good group though. Note that the velocity increased only around 30 fps over the 80 grain load. Looks like the barrel may be maxing out with 90 grains.

Onward to a 100 grain load.





WOW! Another 50+ fps jump in velocity and a pretty good group. Notice the velocity on shot #3. I have no idea what might
have caused that. I didn't notice anything different when seating the bullet. Anyway, that third shot kicked the hammer back
to half ****. Don't like that much. Also notice that the group is moving upward towards the top of the target.

OK, that looks like the maximum load - but I'm going to try 110 grains anyway. I'm not really worried about that thick-walled 1" barrel.

Here's the 110 grain target.



Shot #2 was off the target and I wanted to see what king of group this load produced. So I changed my aim point and shot three more.
Notice the HUGH jump in velocity over the 100 grain load. That should produce a real flat shooting load, but every shot pushed the hammer
back to half ****. I don't think I'll be using this load.

Well, the 90 grain load gave me 1800 fps and pretty good accuracy. A 200 grain XTP at 1800 fps should do in a deer up to 150 yards, and that's
all I need. Let's try that load at 100 yards with a 5-shot group.

Here's the target.



That'll Do! :) Those four holes at the top of the target make a 1 & 1/2" group. Even the low flyer only opens it up to 3".

During that 5-shot sequence I had a misfire. Replaced the cap and had another misfire. Then I put a little Pyrodex in the nipple and got the shot off.
That may have been the low shot, but I don't really know if it was.

Well, it's a nice day and I'm really enjoying shooting. So I figured I would try some Pyrodex RS under that same bullet.

I started off with 90 grains at 50 yards. Here's the target.





Ya` gotta like that group! :D That90 grains of Pyrodex gave me 1730 fps with a low deviation from shot to shot.
That's almost exactly 100 fps less than the 90 grain T7 load.

Let's shoot three more with 100 grains of Pyrodex.




Another decent group. The 100 grain Pyrodex load produced about the same velocity as the 90 grain T7 load.

Well, now it's getting late. Time for one more round. So I put a target out at 100 yards and took five shots with the 90 grain Pyrodex load.

Here it is.




I don't know what happened here. Look at the velocity difference between the first two shots and the last three.
The group is nothing to brag about either. I was shooting pretty fast. Maybe the barrel reached a certain temperature
that caused it. Anyway, it was a fun shoot and I found a darn good hunting load for this barrel.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

What nipple are you using? I always experiencedelayed ignition with pyrodex in my TC Hawken caplock.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

I'm using the TC short nipple Rock Fish. It works fine with Pyrodex, but I need to slap the lock after dumping in theT7 to make sure some gets under the nipple. If I don't, I will sometimes get a hangfire with T7.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

WOW!!! that rifle will really shoot. That would be a good deer rifle.

I have some bullets here at the house that you should try in that rifle. They are .45 caliber.. well actually .40 caliber in a blue .45 caliber sabot. They are 180 grain Barnes Expanders MZ (muzzleloader). I was told by someone that they shoot real good out of Knight Rifles. And that is basically what you have there.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

That sounds interesting Cayugad. I do like Barnes bullets - just don't like the price. Might have to get some. I hate paying a buck a bullet, but if they shoot well they would be just the thing for deer. I wonder what the low end velocity is for expansion?

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Nice Semi - But if you want a real treat, try shooting Pyrodex P in it. I shoot the same 200 gr XTP with the Harvester EZ load 45/40 sabot and 80 gr of Pyro P.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Semi

Same here that is why I switched to 3f especially in cold weather. @f works fine most of the time in warm weather provided you get some out towards the nipple. My routine eventually become to drop 5/10 grains tap and drop the rest - never had a problem with this routine...

I was dinging around with my GM-LRH the other day runing fiber optic light into the bore from the clean-out screw - i was kinda surprised the beam and optic came our on top of the load instead the side or bottom.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Some of that is some good shooting, some of the variations sound like a weak hammer spring or a nipple that burning the touch hole out. Lee

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

I just looked at mine Sabotloader. The clean out screw lines up with the very top of the side barrel flat. A straight line from the clean out screw hole to the bore would enter the .45 bore at the very top. I've never thought about that before. I guess I should be bumping the top of the barrel when I dump T7 to make sure some gets into that area.


Hey Lee. It's a new nipple. I put it in when I got the GM barrel.The barrel/nipple have only 155 shots through them.If this barrel gets evenbetter as it breaks in I'll have a real shooter.Thehammer spring doesn't feel weak to me, but I guess it could be.It's the new lock TC sent me back in Septemberwhen I asked for an offset hammer to use with a scope, and then sent a hammer and lock.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Sounds like you had a great day at the range. Im jealous![&o];)

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Good shooting, you are getting her figured out

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

I plugged the 90 grain T7 load (1800 fps) into Handloads.com's ballistic calculator (http://www.handloads.com/calc/) using Hornady's listed ballistic coefficient for that bullet (0.199) and a zero of 125 yards, and got this.

Looks pretty good, although the energy is falling off out there at 150 yards.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Semi,

For what it's worth, I shot a 4-point buck 3 years ago with the 200 grain .40 cal XTP.
The range was a little over 100 yards, muzzle velocity was 1850 fps, so according to your chart, impact velocity would have been around 1500 fps. At this velocity, the XTP performed PERFECTLY- it was a quartering-to shot-
bullet entered just behind the shoulder, carved out a 50 cent-sized hole through both lungs, part of the liver and exited the far side, leaving a golf-ball sized exit wound. The buck spun around, collapsed, kicked a couple times and it was all over within about 10 - 15 seconds.

From my limited experience, I think the 200 XTP performs BEST at impact velocities of 1400 - 1800 fps. It performs adequately at higher velocities too, but I've had some very rapid expansion and not as good penetration (although still adequate for deer) at impact velocities north of 1850 fps. Hornady claims the bullet is rated to 2,200 fps or so- That seems a bit optimistic from my albeit limited experience. My current load is launching the XTP at about 1950 - 2000 fps and it's worked well for me, though I would be sure to aim behind the shoulder for a "boiler room" shot if it was a close (under 50 yard) shot.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Nice shooting and an excellant report. Although I plan on using P-RS exclusively with my CVA Hunterbolt, I think I will follow your format for testing different loads and bullets.

Question about the Simmons4X ProDiamond scope you have mounted . . . pros and/or cons? This is the one I have been considering. Most of my shots will be in the 75-100 yard range.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Hey Dusty, I have that ProDiamondon that Renegade barrel, and one on my Omega X7.

Pros: Long eye relief (5 inches for me) - wide field of view - clear, sharp optics -very wide adjustment range for elevation and windage -light & short - inexpensive. The last one I bought has what Simmons calls a"fast focus eyepiece" which allowsyou to quickly focus the scope to suit your vision andquickly focus on an objectat any distanceby turning a focus ring at the very end of the rear lense - kind of like the focus ring on binoculars. It's a real nice feature. My older ProDiamond does not have that feature.

Cons: You're limited to the 4X power, of course. So it's less useful than a higher magnification scope for things like evaluating the size of a buck's rack out there at 150 yards.Not too big a deal if you carry binoculars as I do - but still a limitation.It's a shotgun scope, so parallax is set at 50 yards rather than the standard 100 yards used for rifle scopes. That meansonlongshots if your eye is not lined up perfectlywith thecenterline of the scope you could have a parallax sighting error. But it's so small (an inch or less at 200 yards)as to be meaningless to me. Because it's a shotgun scope, the cross hairs are thicker than on most rifle scopes. If you look at my targets above, the four black squares are one inch apart. When I sight on that target at 100 yards, the cross hairs fill up the white squares between those blocks - so they are covering about one inch at 100 yards. Not suitable for fine target work at long ranges (but dang nice in low light hunting situations).

Hope this helps. I like them and suspect you will too. EDIT: Best price is here - http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=SN5 67793&CFID=15912872&CFTOKEN=78592655

Hey SmellyDog ;), thanks for that report on the 200 XTP. A real world report likethat is always comforting. I'm a boiler room shooter just about all of the time. On a really close shot, like under 50 yards, I sometimes take a neck shot if I have agood rest and a relaxed animal. If I don't have a good shot I just won't take it.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Semi,

I forgot to say- that is some really nice shooting. I have the Simmons ProDiamond 4X too and I really like it- with the limitations that you already spelled out very nicely,

I usually take boiler room shots too- I don't like shoulder shots because of the meat damage.

I took a doe a couple years ago at 100 yards with a neck shot with the 200 XTP (80 grains loose T7). A little longer than I would prefer for a neck shot, but she was perfectly still and her body was obscured by a bunch of multiflora rose bushes. But the bullet flew true, and completely severed the spinal cord- dropping her instantly.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Well OldHound, that's good shooting. Did that lady know you were hunting in her rose garden? :D

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Semisane


Hope this helps. I like them and suspect you will too. EDIT: Best price is here - http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=SN5 67793&CFID=15912872&CFTOKEN=78592655


WOW!!!!! Was $206.01, now $39.95 ??????????

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

I have two inlines with a Pro Diamond 4x and one with a Pro Sport 2.5x20 mm and I have tried to shake that apart and have not done it yet. That one coasted a Whooping $19.95. I like them inexpensive scopes. If they break I get to argue with a scope company, and if they don't I get to shoot and see if they can work.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

Not hardly Dusty. :) A misprint for sure. I've seen them priced most places at around$69.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

"Well OldHound, that's good shooting. Did that lady know you were hunting in her rose garden? "

HA HA. I guess you guys down south don't have a problem with the multiflora rose "weed" that grows everywhere, entangles you everywhere you go, and sometimes makes it nearly impossible to track & drag a deer out of it when it gets really thick. I heard they imported it from another country to use for erosion control, now it's run wild across eastern & southern Ohio & WV (plus other states I'm sure). Only plus is, the deer do eat it- so it is a food supply for them.

RE: Sunday Afternoon Sidelock
 

In the East we call them Rose briars. I lost more hats,gloves and pants to those terrible bushes!! But the deer love to hang out in them and most times we would have to put a drive on to get em out. Most seasons I saw more blood caused by rose briars then from deer we shot.