BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

Breech had seen a hunting video where someone shot a elk at 375yds, well I think they were using the BadBullMuzzleloader. Just wondering if anyone had seen or shot one?

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I've not heard of them before your post but here is a link to their website.

http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/

Ben

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I have heard about them and they are amazing. Expensive also. One post I read, the standard load was four pellets and a Barnes I believe it was. They were talking about them over on MM.

Actually I kind of dread seeing such a post, as that is exactly the kind of fuel the anti inline people love to scream about. Even though most hunters can not shoot anywhere near those distance or with that kind of power. Or even afford those kind of rifles. BUT in their rants they always leave some of less important facts out.

If any rifle gets muzzleloaders moved out of the black powder season, these would be one of them. In a way, I am kind of happy that Wisconsin does not allow powered scopes in their muzzleloader season. Believe me, with out optics, your rifle might be a bad bull but your eyes in my case are still old and have glasses in front of them (that like to slip down my nose at the range) to help me focus. I can only shoot as well as I can see.

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

Dave, reading this forum and thinking back to that show where the guy shot that elk at 375yds, I had a flashback and remembered that Im pretty sure they mentioned the amount of powder or pellets being used as (600gr) would that be possible? At the time it was mentioned and I heard it I thought It could'nt be, but now that I remember Im sure they said 600gr. Any thoughts on this?

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

KNOW I REMEMBER, IM SURE IT WAS 6 PELLETS USED, NOT 600GR'S

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

They are over $3,000, you can buy a Savage for $550 and do about the same. It is all about ballistics and knowing where you bullets are going to hit. Guys are taking deer at 300 yards with the Savage, shooting 4" groups at 300. If you can take the recoil Savage can get ya there. I have a Savage, however I am dropping back to a "sweeter load" of about 1900 to 2000 FPS and shooting a Barnes MZ or a Barnes 45/70 bullet called the Barnes TSX Flatnose 300g, part number 45843 with a CR sabot and 44g of AA 5744. I shot 200 yardsno problem with my Savage and 67g of 4198, manageable and with the right scope dialed in I am sure I could have shot 300, I would need to get a 4-12 scope to do that however, 200 is the limit for me with the Savage and my current scope. Some guys are shooting 195g Barnes TMZ with 40 and 45 barrels sabotless to 250 yards no problem.

Ithink the current rage of Long Range shooting will pass and we will have the "big and slow is the way to go" crowd which will dominate the market and the "small and fast is a blast" crowd (about 20 pct of market), obviously out west 375 yards for an elk is a poke. But you can do it with a lot of practice and knowing your optics and ballistics of your bullet.

There will always want to be "hot rodders" in the Sunday drive club, for them the Bad Bull was designed, but be prepared to accept a lot of recoil, a super heavy gun, another thing you need to consider is, will this gun be in production in 10 years? For the Savage I would say yes, for theBad Bull, I don't think so. Now if Bad Bull gets bought by TC or Knight or CVA to compete with the Savage and make a cheapter gun, then I would consider it.
Chap

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

With the recoil that thing would give it might nearly kill the hunter as well as the deer. As Dave said it the pro side hammer group will have more grist for their mill.

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

The Bad Bull ML's are designed for smokeless powder. They shoot 140 grs. (weighed) of IMR 4350 pushing a 275 gr.Parker Ballistic Extreme @ 3100 fps. Definitely not for the faint of heart or bank account!

I believe the inline that shoots the 4 Pyro pellet loads is the Ultimate Firearms BP Express.

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

Breechplug,
Some FAQs from their site






What caliber is the Bad Bull Muzzleloader?
The Bad Bull Muzzleloader is a 45 caliber. We chose the 45 caliber over the 50 caliber because we can obtain a higher velocity and a flatter trajectory. The Bad Bull Muzzleloader delivers over 6000 FPE of energy at the muzzle and retains 2500 FPE at 300 yards using our 275gr bullet. Another plus for the 45 caliber is that it has less recoil than a 50 caliber.
What bullet do you recommend?
We recommend the 275gr Parker/Bad Bull Ballistic Extreme. With this bullet, we are obtaining velocities of 3100 FPS from the X Series Bad Bull. Trajectory is very flat. Set 3" high at 100 yards, the bullet is still 3" high at 200 yards. It comes back to zero at 265 yards and is only 3" low at 300 yards. Also, accuracy has been very good. We have customers reporting 1.5" groups at 300 yards.
What type of Powder does the Bad Bull Muzzleloader use?
Our muzzleloader is designed to use modern smokeless powder. This eliminates the messy clean up associated with black powder. Black powder is also very corrosive and can damage muzzleloaders very quickly. Also, it is well proven that smokeless powder is ballistically superior to black powder. NOTE: NEVER use smokeless powder in any other muzzleloader. It could result in injury or death. The Bad Bull Muzzleloaders are designed for the higher pressure generated by smokeless powder.
What load is used in the Bad Bull?
The Bad Bull Muzzleloader uses IMR 4350 smokeless powder. The minimum load is 100gr. DO NOT drop below 100gr, or DO NOT exceed 140gr of IMR 4350. We recommend a 45 Wonder Wad on top of the powder charge with our 275gr bullet seated on the wad. A Large Rifle Magnum primer is used to ignite the charge. We use a Federal 215M Primer. This is the only Primer that performs properly in the Bad Bull Muzzleloader.
Can I experiment and use other smokeless powder?
Definitely NOT! Use only the recommended charge of IMR 4350 Powder. The muzzleloaders have been pressure tested using the powder charge. If you experiment with other powders, you run the risk of damaging or destroying the muzzleloader, in addition to the risk of injury or death. Use only the powder and charge recommended by Bad Bull Muzzleloaders.
Can I use pellets (black powder substitutes) in this muzzleloader?
Yes, black powder substitute pellets may be used. You may use 3 or 4 black powder pellets (50gr each) in the Bad Bull Muzzleloader. CAUTION: Do not exceed 4 pellets. That is the maximum load. Do not load 4 pellets in any other muzzleloader. The Bad Bull Muzzleloader is designed to withstand this pressure: others are not. Clean the muzzleloader as soon as possible after use.
Can I use black powder in the Bad Bull Muzzleloader?
No. The flash hole is not designed for the use of black powder or black powder granular substitutes.
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RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

Thank's, that cleared things up! Mabey I heard it was the 6000Foot Pounds of Energy Produced, that had to have been it, they talked really fast at the end of the show. Not something I would consider to own though, the recoil would'nt bother me as Im 6'6" and 240lbs or the heavier gun, actually I pefer a heavier gun also, it absorbs more recoil. Thank's for the info. BP

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I'm not trying to take away from your gun, I think they are an awsome gun, but the fact is just because the bullet goes in from the muzzle doesn't make it a muzzleloader. I'm with cayugad I like the limits that are on ML guns for ML seasons. Like I said earlier your gun is COOL and in the near futire I'll have one, I have seen them on tv and have watched your video on the web, and want one bad, but don't think it should be used in a ML legal seaon.

Again this is just my opinion and ya know what they say, just like that famous hole everyone has one!

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I DONT HAVE ONE, I just saw the show where one was used. I tooDO NOTthink they should be legal to use during ML Season. Nor do I think Cross-Bows should be used during Archery Seasons,or at all period, My OP,,,,UNLESS your Handicapped. Traditional should stay Traditional. It's all about learning to get close to the game we hunt and mastering the skills involved in the weapon we hunt with. BP

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I with you on that, I to am a bow hunter, I do use a compound with a fiberoptic sight and that is because I SUCK with a traditional bow. My some is special need and he hunts with a crossbow, but he is wanting to start ML hunting with a traditional gun

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I do have a (recurve) Bow, but it's just for fooling around, Im sure I could harvest a Deer with it, but I would'nt take a shot any further than 20yds with it. And there's nothing wrong with fiber-optic sights on Compounds, everyone uses them, anything that can help us make the best shot possible on a animal is good for everyone, and especially the animal. My Best to your Son, I hope he enjoys the sport, and has a Blast Muzzleloading! BP

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

The performance advantage of smokeless is one thing, the inline vs sidehammer argument is borderline ridiculous. It's primarily cosmetic. My old sidelock shot well to 200 yds. If you want strong performance restrictions, keep out smokeless and scopes. Once you allow scopes, any standard ML with commonly accepted bullets and decidedly standard charges, regardless of what the gun looks like, is a 300+ yd gun in the right hands.

You guys got to remember that the goal of ML season differs greatly by state too. Out west, I can see the emphasis on an opportunity for a more traditional hunt. In southern Michigan and, to a lesser extent Indiana, it is an important additional population control season where you need more people afield not less. This year my buddies back where I grew up said they went so far as to extend regular firearms seasons -- at the expense of bow and ML hunters -- to get more does taken.

I don't know about you but I'd rather see more guys in the field with me with scoped inlines than shotguns....

I am not going to pay the outlandish prices for these guns, switching to smokeless, for some reason, is the point at which I stop seeing the point in it. I don't know why, it's as arbitrary as any of the other lines people draw to define these guns (which are all arbitrary opinions by the way). I have one ML with a scope that I shoot long range, and TWO with open sights. I rarely get out during ML-only seasons, so the long range gun is used primarily during firearms opener. Come to think of it, I think the rare occasions I get out and take deer during ML-only season I've always used one of the open sight guns...

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I like your thinking, I use only ML's for Hunting, shotgun season too. Back to scoped ML's, our state allows scoped ML's for Muzz. Season, the reason is you get LESS WOUNDED DEER with a scope then with open-sights. If more guy's would switch to ML's during ShotGunn Season it would make them better hunters and there would be less wounded Deer knowing that you only have 1 shot and you better make it a good one or pass. BP

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I can see your piont on thining the herd and also agree with what you are saying. Out west we have no need to cull deer or elk so I don't mind the limits put on ML's. When needed to cull I would like to see more ML seasons than shotgun myself. That said I to draw the line at smokeless or smoke powder

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

Smokeless was the first and still is the original black powder substitute. Any rifle loaded from the muzzle is a muzzle loader IMHO. Please check your bottles of so called black powder substitute. they are all clasified as smokless powder. IMHO your arguments are that smokeless shouldn't be used holds no water unless you will and only will use true Black Powder.

Ken
Central NY

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

!00 to 140gr of imr 4350. Wow thats one heck of a load. Even with my 300 mag if I use 4350 I use less than 80grs. That has got to have a ton of recoil.

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I don't think anyone said smokeless shouldn't be used Screwbolts, only that it was not something they were interested in. We have a number of Savage/smokeless shooters on the forum who enjoy "going both ways", and we still talk to them. :D

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

I look at there web site. They are one nice looking rifle, but I think 6 grand is a bite more than what RN's can afford.

RE: BadBull Muzzleloaders
 

Semisane, that is what I was trying to say, It's just not for ME. I will sometimes hunt with a center fire rifle, but if I can avoid it I will.
I'm not so sure why people get so up tight about termanology.

All I ment was that a Badbull is not in the same class as my triumph, it is, to ME in the same class as a center fire. If you will it seems to be the Weatherby of muzzleloaders!