Montana X-treme
 

I had some concerns about Montana X-treme Bore Conditioner. I Know Sabotloader and I have been trying it out and finding out some good things about it. But without really knowing, we personally could not tell other members of the forum that his is a great product. And that they should use this product. So I have sent some emails and the questions were answered. I of course sent in a few more questions, but I wanted to keep you updated as to what I have found out about Montana X-treme.

So this is the email, that they answered for me...



Dave,
Great to hear from you again.
Montana X-Treme Bore Conditioning Oil, "the accuracy oil", was developed to penetrate the cracks and pores of the barrel. The longer it sits in the barrel the more it will loosen up carbon embedded in the machine marks, pores and along the edge of the rifling. This is probably what you see on the patch. (In my letter to him I mentioned the black smudges on patches I was getting out of my rifles. And it would make sense, that some of the older rifles would have more carbon built up in all the different nooks and crannies of the barrel.) My guess is that after a while this will be less and less. As you continue to use it you will find that cleaning becomes easier.
This is also true when you use it in your center fire riles. It reduces the amount of copper fouling and makes the copper fouling easier to remove. We have several very good shooters, among them Jeff Hoffman at Black Hills Ammunition, who swear by it. They have found that it eliminated the need for a fouling shot.

(The following are some of the questions I asked)
1) So what exactly is the reason I should use the bore conditioner?
It will penetrate and protect the bore making cleanup easier. It reduces fouling that can lead to poor accuracy.

2) After it is applied, what should I do next?
Leave it in the bore and let it soak in.

3) I dry patch the barrel before I shoot. Is this all I need to do?
Yes. Always dry patch the bore to remove any excess before shooting.

4) And will these oils react to black powder and produce that black tar substance?
The film left in the bore should be extremely light therefore it will not react with any propellant.

I hope this helps.
Best regards,

Don Luhr
Western Powders


Again, I have sent in a few more questions. If you have any questions about the product that you need answered, post them here, and I will send Don a link to this post so he can then address them or what... Hope this is going to help out some of us.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Dave - thanks for the update. Because I use BP mostly and was always skeptical about using a petroleum product because of the tarry buildup that could occur. I just might give MX a try now.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

cayugad

Thank you Dave for the follow up... my verbal directions from Shaun @ MX were never written so well.

When I first saw your patches (dirty) I really felt that the product had leached (my term-not MX's word)into the bore and forced foreign material out. Shaun had eluded to that possibilty but I could never get it into the correct words. With so much negative opinions about being able to condition a bore I have not mentioned it in any of my posts.

I am still using and monitoring what it is or might be doing. I have another experiment hopefully scheduled for tomorrow @ the farm.

Are you or will you post these notes over on MM also?

RE: Montana X-treme
 

[/align][/align]
One question I was having is lets say I have the bore conditioner in the barrel. And I let it sit for say an hour and then dry patch it out. I then should oil the bore correct?[/align][/align]thanks again..[/align][/align]Dave

[/align][/align]On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Don <[email protected]> wrote:

[blockquote]
Dave,

We have found that the Bore Conditioning Oil is all you need to protect the bore. The MTX Gun oil is a general lube for moving parts and prevents rust on external parts. The BC oil is pretty cool stuff. The next best thing that you could compare it to is Kroil.

We were doing some work with BC Oil to see if we could get to the point where we don't need a fouling shot for BH209. We had positive results but did not get to pursue it long enough to get anything conclusive.

Have you found that the BC Oil helps to keep the first shot in the group?



[/align]
[blockquote]
Don ..[/align][/align]

Don- I was using just the Bore Conditioner. And before shooting I patched the bore with a dry patch. And I was able to hold the first shot into the group using my White Bison. Normally it throws the first one. But I was more concerned that I might need to oil the bore in addition to the bore conditioner. Mike (Sabotloader) spoke to Shaun at MX and was told to oil the bore in addition to the conditioner, so we were kind of lost is space. [/align][/align]I am sure the BlackHorn shooters will be glad to hear no need for a fowling shot. That's one thing I discovered on my BlackHorn testing was.. the more I shot, the more accurate the rifle got.[/align][/align]So I am passing this information along to a couple forums. I also told them any questions they might have, to address me in the forum and I would see if I can get an answer for them.. [/align][/align]thanks for the responce..[/align][/align]Sabotloader.. I will post this on MM as well.[/align][/align][/blockquote][/align][/align][/align][/blockquote][/align]

RE: Montana X-treme
 

The way it sounds.. that black smudge is nothing but carbon that the bore conditioner has pulled out of those old barrels. That's good to know. I will swab them back up again and let it keep working.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Man, you guys just won't let up will you. Made me try Blackhorn. Now it Montana X-treme. :D I sure hope MountainDevil doesn't post good results with those Pooch Poop Patches. :D

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Well if you don't have a fatty dog like MD you could always eat them and chase it down with some scotch. Might be a good way to explain the need for the scotch.

As for the Montana X-treme we just love to tinker. :D

RE: Montana X-treme
 

So thats what he uses,I bet theres a smell to go with that PB attitude. Lee

RE: Montana X-treme
 

I really had to laugh when MD showed pictures of his dog. Although I doubt his name is Fatty. He sure looked like a hand full. Semisane.. I hear it got kind of cold down there..

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Where can one get this and how much is this "miracle" cleaner.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Well I can tell you where to get it, but I am not sure I want to call it a miracle cleaner oil yet. Although it is pulling carbon out of a barrel that is in very poor shape. Even after the patches I was pushing through were coming out clean. So time will tell. Sabotloader wants to test a little more too.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com for the Montana Xtreme Bore Conditioner, order # 165-07030 4oz. Bottle $5.86ea. Montana Extreme Xtreme Gun Oil, order # 165-07015 4oz. $5.02 Telephone # 1-800-272-3000 and if your interested in the (Birchwood Casey Sheath Rust Preventative)Order # 012-33140 10oz. Aerosol $5.94

RE: Montana X-treme
 

I cant wait to get the Montana Xtreme Bore Conditioner and XTreme Gun oil to try in Both Barrel's of My ACCURA's. One being only shot a few times and the other never being shot, this will be a good test for the Montana X Products as the barrela are clean of any carbon deposits. But what I wasnt to see is how this will work with the ACCURA's (Bargara Barrel's) since the Bargara Barrel's go through a 4 step process wich includes...#1 a straight bar a cylinder steel.....#2 deep hole drilling machine...#3 (BARREL POLISHING) this is the process that will really show Montana XTreme Bore Conditioner's Benefits as the Barrel is POLISHED. Bargara barrel's pass through (3) seperate honing spindles that use diamond tipped bits that polish the barrel's interior surface. Then step 4 is the rifling process. So with the Bargara's Barrel being polished to a (MIRROR LIKE FINISH) the Montana XTreme Bore Conditioner should really shine here (no pun intended) as these barrel's are produced to the provide exceptional accuracy and with the help of the Montana X they should preform flawlessly. I'll keep you posted on my results. And the rest of you let us know your's also. Happy Shooting! Ron

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Did I read (on MM) that this bore conditioner can cause rust? Did I get that right?

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Cayugad,

OK. I am going to order a few bottles today. Do I have to put more oil in the bore after I put the conditioner in or do I just use the bore conditioner and thats all. If I need more oil what should I use. Would it be OK to follow it up with some Barricade/Sheath which is what I use now or should I use something else?

RE: Montana X-treme
 

SHulion

Scott, do not order to many bottles, the stuff is very thin goes miles... I made some pre-made patches two or three months ago (maybe acouple of dozen patches) and I am still working on that original batch and if you looked at the bottle you would not think I have used any...

Also remember theConditioner is for use as the final product - the barrel should be squeaky clean - do not use it as abore cleaner. Normally you will use one patch per bore -several stokes both sides of the patch.

Shaun, the voice I talked to on the phone, and I think Jon, the emailer that Dave is talking to, both saidthe Conditioner would also protect the bore long term - it has mine, but Shaun indicated if you had any doubts and you were going to store the gun for a length of timeapatch of a heavier gun oil would be OK - It would not interfer with the Conditioner at all - ust patch the bore clean and dry before shooting.

I have had the conditioner and conditioner onlyin several Renegades just sitting (standing) in the open unused room for 2 1/2 months now -I check themevery 2 weeks by running a dry patch- so for all is well.

Using the product has an attached learning curve and it always better to safe than sorry... so do what you feel protects YOU best.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Thanks sabotloader. Both of my guns are squeeky clean right now. I think I will alcohol swab out the Sheath and put in some MX bore conditioner. Thanks for the quick reply. I'll also keep an eye on it for a while just to make sure the barrel is not showing any signs of rust. If I do decide to put a little extra oil in the barrel, should I let the "bore conditioner" sit a little while before I put the oil in. Also, will the BC Sheath be OK?

RE: Montana X-treme
 

SHulion

This just my thoughts... but i think that would be the way to go. After the alcohol - make sure the bore is really really dry before moving on to the next step... If the gun is going to idle for an extended time a more wet patch of conditioner would probably be appropriate. If you are going to shoot it in the next month or so then a damp patch several stokes both sides. The conditoner requires time and shooting to work to its fullest extent.

That is what i am doing - I patched all the Renegades and a coupl of inlines with the barely damp patch and I am wayching them. I have not patched anything with a heavy storage??? patch.

I certainly would - the longer the X-treme sits in the obre on its own the better it works... the only thing that helps it work faster is shooting - the n the heat helps open up the bore.

Well if you listen to Dave it is the best - think he might just drink the stuff to discourage the aging process also.... Naw, it is a really good protectant.. Good on the outside also

Remember all of this is not from MX - a lot of this is just my expreriance and I am still tryigto figure it all out...

mike

RE: Montana X-treme
 

I too have older guns thatI would like to make shine so I guess I can get some to try. Thanks Breechplug for the link.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Gotbuck

Actually that would be a great addition to our experiment if you would not mind. I am assuming some facts here also - assuming the guns have been shot and cleaned several times? How about conicals - have you shot conicals from any one of them more than the other? Black Power - has one been shot with a lot of black powder loads???

If you would not mind I would like you to pick one that has been shot more than the others... clean the bore again to clear as much oil or left over residue from anything as well as you can. When you have it cleaned again and DRY ( I think this is a big key even if it is alcohol) Then patch in a couple of wet patches (both sides) of the conditioner - these patches might come out with just a bit of light blue coloring on them - not to worry... Do not dry patch at this point. Set the gun aside in a warm room, it would be great if it could be stored horizontally, for a couple of weeks. Then run a dry patch.... This stuff works over time and with the aid of heat.

These are my words not Montana X-treme. I really beleive the conditioner leaches its way into the pores and slight depressions in the bore and most importantly the breech side of the lands... this leaching process causes foreign non-steel materails to loosen and be forced out of these hard to get spots. Then a dry patch will pick them up as happened to Dave. Course then agin you might not get anything but a wel protected bore...

If you have an opportunity to do this it would be great....

mike

RE: Montana X-treme
 

The concern was (and not well written by me I might add) if just the bore conditioner was used could the barrel rust. According to Don's (of Western Powder) email, the Bore Conditioner is all you need to use to protect the barrel as it is a refined oil Shaun basically told Sabotloader that if you have any doubts, in addition to the bore conditioner to use some oil to protect the bore for storage.

I use Birchwood Casey Sheath as I did not have any of the Montana Gun Oil. The actual Bore Conditioner is a refined oil as I understand it (and correct me Sabotloader if I am wrong here) so it will not make your barrel rust. But you might see some stuff it pulls out of the barrel. Which is happening to me in all the old barrels I have been treating with the stuff. You let them sit and when you patch, you get a black smudge on the patch that was not there before. Don of Western Powder says he believes that is carbon the bore conditioner had drawn out of the metal pores and cracks and you are basically cleaning the rifle a little more each time you use the BC.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

My bottles are on the way. I can't wait to give it a try in all of my guns. I'll let you guys know what happens.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

cayugad

Dave and I am really thinking if you shoot real BP you are more than likely going to get that carbon - as you are shooting real charcoal and when it burns it produces carbon. And in fact burning any powder will produce some carbon... the heat and pressure created at the breech will drive some of that up into and behind the lands of the bore. A little at a time.

Just a thought I am thinking - if GotBuck jumps in maybe his barrel will react the same way.

I do have an old 54 Rene that I shot a lot of GOEX-3f from last summer - I am going to try treating that this afternoon. Right now it has been outside the test...

RE: Montana X-treme
 

And see... that was all my Whites and Renegade shot prior to me testing different powders in them. I am sure that's where all the carbon came from. Yet what surprised me, before I applied that Bore Conditioner, had you asked me if the bore was "spotless" I would have bet the farm on it. Goes to show, what you can't see can still be there.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

OK..I'm gonna try some of this stuff. If it works on old real BP bores I would think it will be good for any bore.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Your Welcome! Thank (sabotloader)-Mike, he turned me onto this stuff. Im sure we all will be hearing good things about the Montana Products. And everyone keep us infromed of you results. If this product works and does what they say, you better buy it now as suppyls are already low out there. Soon they'll change the name to (Montana X-Ring)

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Cayuga or Sabotloader,

My bottles of MX "bore Conditioner" came in today. I swabbed the barrels out to clean out any other oils. Then the bore conditioner went it. I stored the guns with the barrel down to let any excess bore conditioner run out the barrel and not in the action. Is this right??? My next question is, on the bottle it states that you should "insure that you do not leave a heavy amount of oil in the barrel". What is the reason for this. I live by the school of thought that if a little is good then more must be better. I soaked the patches pretty good. Should I worry about having to much in the barrel? Thanks for your help.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

Before you shoot, be sure and dry patch the excess oil out of the barrel. Also if you are going to shoot BlackHorn 209 pay attention to where the first shot hits in relation to the rest of the group. Especially if this was a problem in the past with other powders. And post your results. I'd appreciate the information.

RE: Montana X-treme
 

SHulion

I just looked at my bottle also... I read the statement to mean do not have a bunch of oil in the bore before shooting, which is in the sentence directly above that.

My practice at the moment is when I run a BC patch in a gun that i might use in the near future - I will run a lightly moistened patch of BC - it really does not take much. If I am putting a gun away for an extended period of time I will run a a more wet patch in the bore. Then I leave that gun set horizontally for a couple of hours. The Glycol ether in the product will evaporate very rapidly and the product will dry. But as my last step i will run a loose dry patch to pick up the excess.

It is important- to run a tight dry patch before shooting.

my take on the product....