Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

I have heard that 209 Primers have too much flame and they actually lift the sabot off the powder charge prematurally, any truth to this????

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

The Kleenbore and similar products are $8/box, and I don't think they are any better than the $3 209a Winchesters. Chap

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

I have been using both, the kleen bore and Triple Seven and have not noticed any difference in accuracy. I have also heard to switch back to No.10 caps, I have breechplug addapters to add the No.10's to the 209 but have'nt tried this experiment has anyone? Then again I've heard you need the extra umphhhh from the 209's to properally ignite the pellets. Who's right??

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

I have heard this too, can I verify it?-- No. I shoot cci-209m primers, and haven't ever had a problem. If your sabot/load are a good fit, you shouldn't have a problem.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

I think if your getting a crud ring with 777 you deal with it by shooting a different primer or swabing each shot. I did the swabbing each shot when I shot 777. I now shoot Blackhorn and it needs a hot primer.Here is a little experiement someone did on the Savage forum with a Chrony shooting just a sabot out of the barrel.A Savage has to have a hot primer to ignite it (no 777 primers or Kleenbore), just like Blackhorn has to have a hot primer. Chap

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

1: When people shoot sub-moa groups using Win209a and Federal 209s, the argument becomes sort of irrelevant.

2: Conventional wisdom is for maximum accuracy use the ignition source with the least energy that still positively ignites the charge. Doing so is supposed to help eliminate the occasional, and unexplainable, fliers.

3: See item 1. ;)

and don't you mean #11 caps. #10 caps are generally for pistols.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

This was Cecil Epps reasoning behind the 22 Hornet and later 25 ACP ignition systems. Small rifle primers were the answer to unexplained flyers. I have used the 25 ACP ignition and noticedno difference inaccuracy. It did lessen the crud ring somewhat,but I still swab between shots at the range for consistancy(even with Pyro).In the woods my "follow up shot" is loaded with an MMP 3EZ sabot and no swab.

Charlie

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

Regardless of the name "Blackhorn 209 " the .25acp with the cci 450 small rifle MAGNUM primers works just fine.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

if that was true we would never get groups under an inch, since a lot of us do its not. probably some body trying to sell some thing. Lee

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

very bottom left is with rem kleanbore primers and 348gr powerbelt, next up is the same primer but with 295gr aerotip and the 3 shots touching are with winchester triple 7 primers. All at 100 yards


CCI 209m,

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

So MountainDevil54 I take it your a CVA Shooter??? would you say the TripleSeven primers are better???

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

How do you get your pictures to download??? everytime I try to download one it say's the file is too large? I'd like to post some pics and add a pic next to my forum name like everyone else does....Thank's Ron (breechplug) Also I sent you a e-mail about what sabots TC uses with there XTP Mags, 240gr.....are they the MMP 12 Black????

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

go to www.photobucket.com sign up and then you'll be able to upload your pics and paste as many as you want here.

Triple 7 primers worked fine for me but i dont like the price. You just have to get an assortment, get an accurate load and then change one thing out and see what happens.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

And if I did'nt thank you, Thank You! for turning me onto Mark at CVA. I hope to hear something from him tomorrow on my ACCURA's barrel lug problem. Ron

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

Breechplug, download this little program http://www.download.com/Picture-Resizer/3000-2192_4-10831368.html?tag=mncol Scan the file for malware/viruses (it should be clean).

Right click onPhotoResize400.exe and rename it to PhotoResize500.exe.

Put the file someplace where you intend to keep it permanently (ie My Documents, My Pictures, or some separate folder).

Now left click onPhotoResize500.exe and give it permission to run - a box will come up. Click where it says 'Add to Context Menu' or words to that effect. Only click that once. Then exit the box.

Go to a picture you want to upload, right click on it and then click where it says 'resize picture'. Whatever folder that picture is in will now have a new picture of the same name, except -500 will be added. That picture should be suitable to upload.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

Thank's I'll give it a try......sometime a picture says a 1000 words......

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

Edited my posting above to give you a safer download location. I believe Download.com also provides a bit newer release of the program. Works just the same.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

I did a test of cci209m,cci209, and federal 209a when i first started shooting BH209 in the Knight LRH and the accuracy was not affected at all.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

the 777 seven primers are supose to be not as hot they use to have 410 shot gun primers years ago that wearnt as hot but they did away with them years ago because of new powders and that is what tripple seven primers are . the theory is that the hot primers move the powder up the barrel at ignition forming a ring of crud in the barrel making the next load hard to seat and accuracy falls apart and i believe it to be true i had a optima pro that shot great aslong as you brushed and swabed between shots tried the new primers didnt help went back to my knight .i shoot pyrodex and #11 caps i can shoot 5or6 times without any accuracy problems at all .i have a older knigh and i wanted to shoot 150grs so i bought the new cva easyier to clean .but i got rid of it i would sooner take alittle longer to clean than have to run a patch after every shot.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

X1

Tried the Winchester 777 primers and the Remington Muzzleloading primers. The Remingtons did not make a good seal in my Encore and the Winchester 777s made the 777 crud ring worse.

It is Winchester 209 primers for me.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

I've heard this also so I wanted to see for myself. And truth be told, using the same powder/bullet/sabot combo and loading the exact same way the only difference was the std Win 209 primer vs the 209ML primer - I can say that my groups were at minimum 50% tighter(going from a bit over 1 1/2" to almost 1" at 100 yds). Is this one day of shooting conclusive? Absolutely not! It would take me at least 9 more similar results to form an opinion. However, this does give me more confidence and I will probably use the 209ML primers. In fact when Walmart had them for less than 1/2 price, I cleaned them out and got 8 tins.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

You have to upload your picture(s) to a Web Server. Instructions to post your pictures are here:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2821708

If your trying to put a picture from Cabelas, Midway or anywhere elseon the Internet in your post I have written up instructions here:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/How%20to%20put%20an%20Image%20in%20a%20Post%20on%2 0HuntingNet%20dot%20com.pdf

Here are a few Tips that I have written for Organizing your Computer for hunting, including making PDF copies of important posts:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Tips%20for%20Organizing%20Hunting%20Content.pdf

You can test placing a post here:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tt.aspx?forumid=43

Best Wishes,
Chap

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

My PERCEPTION was that I had fewer flyers with the ACP conversion, but I can't say it was enough to be a clear answer.

Saying you shot 1-inch groups with 209s means it's not true isn't exactly correct, it's the occasional flyer that is the question. 3-shot groups are not that hard to do and not have a flyer, it's when you shoot several groups in a day that flyers become apparent.

I have no firm opinion on the issue, I did not switch to ACP for accuracy. I did it for the crud ring and ease of manipulation of the primers. I see less (ie no) blowback too.

I've never done it, but I know a buddy of mine forgot to put powder in his Omega, seated a sabot right on the plug. I told him over the phone to pop off a 209 and see what happened. He said the bullet landed about 6 feet away.

RE: Has anyone hear of 209 primers having too much flame?
 

I believe the consensus is that it made little difference in accuracy. while there are some good things about that system the best one is the elimination of blow back on some guns that it is hard to stop the blowback on.
There is two different out fits testing a similar system with large rifle primers, now that's the one I like first of it works well consistently with BH209 secondly it gives a really wide range of choices from the standard large pistol primer to the Magnum large rifle primer. If they don't come out with one soon I intend to use my Omega and pick out one I have thought about trying to turn some 209 shape with a recess that will take the large rifle primer. Lee