Playing With The X7 - BLACKHORN TARGETS ADDED
 

After my first date with the Omega X7 (http://www.huntingnet.com//forum/tm.aspx?m=3265624) and experiencing a little difficulty with the fiber optic front sight, I decided to put a scope on it for this range session. I had an "elChepo" Tasco 3X9 that I bought on sale at WalMart at the end of last season, so I mounted it on the gunwith a Leupold base and rings. In my view, this size scope is too big for the X7. At almost 13 inches long with 40mm lenses, it just doesn't look righton thelittle gun, at least to me (my brother-in-law liked it). I thinka simple 4X scope is in this gun's future - a7 inch tube with a 32mm lenswould be just right I think.

My objective in this range session was to establish a base line comparison of several bullet/sabot/powder combinations to use as a starting point for future range sessions. I decided to use 95 grains of GOEX, Pyrodex RS, Triple Seven FFG, and Blackhorn with the following bullets.

Speer 300 grain .452 Gold Dots in Harvester crush rib sabots.
Speer 300 grain .452 Gold Dots in Harvester short black sabots.
Speer 210 grain .410 Gold Dots in Harvester blue 50/40 sabots.
Hornady 200 grain .40 XTPs in Harvester blue 50/40 sabots.

I would like to have shot 5-shot groups of each combination, but time was limited (shooting between morning and evening hunts), so I shot 3-shot groups. In my view, a 3-shot group is enough to tell you a load combination is no good, but a good3-shot group could be a fluke.A good 5-shot group is almost certainly telling you the truth.

This first set of four targets is with GOEX FFFg and each bullet. I wiped with twosides of one alcohol patch between shots (2S1AP)for the entire range session. Shooting was from a bench at 100 yards with the scope set on 9X.

GOEX Targets:











Pretty disappointing all around, although that 2" group on the first target gives me some hope for a GOEX load.I was a little surprised that the crush rib sabots gave a better group with the 300 Gold Dots thanthe short black sabots. It's usually the other way around in my Mustang.

Let's repeat the sequence with Pyrodex RS.

Pyrodex Targets:











Really disappointed with how the .41 and .40 bullets are doing. The 300 GD in the short black sabotmade me smile though. Add or reduce the load by five or ten grains and I might get something really shooting.

OK, on the the Triple Seven FFG.


Triple Seven Targets:












Once again, pretty disappointing except for the 300 GDs in short black sabots. I can work with that load. The .41 and .40 bullets still stink though.

On to Blackhorn.

Blackhorn Targets:

. [:-]
OH NO!!! [&o]It's almost 3:30 p.m. Time to head for the stand for the evening hunt. Dang! I really, really wanted to be able to report onthose Blackhorn groups. I promise to do it next week end. :D

EDIT: OKguys, I shot the same sequence with Blackhorn last week end. Here are the targets.






Man, was that disappointing. Considering all of the good reports on Blackhorn and the pretty good groups I got with Pyrodex and Triple 7 and Harvester short black sabots, I expectedBlackhorn to do better, or at least as well. It sure didn't. I used both sides of one alcohol patch between shots the same way I did with the other powders. Maybe that was amistake with Blackhorn. I would have tried another group without swabbing, but was running out of time and decided to save the little BH I had left to shootin the Mustang when I get a new 209 breech plug for it.

Conclusions:

1. The 300 grain Gold Dot in Harvester short black sabots show a lot of promise in this gun. That's good because it's my favorite bullet (and the best shooting bullet in the Mustang also) so I should have no troublefinding my "hunting load" for this gun.

2. I suspect the 95 grain load I was shooting is pretty near the maximum useful powder charge for this 22" barrel, but I may be wrong here. I need to chronograph a few experimental loads to see what happens.

3. I do want to add Blackhorn to the comparison (but hope I end up finding a T7 or Pyrodex load that shoots as well as, or better thanBH :D).

4. I need to repeat the entire shoot with a lower powder charge, maybe 80 grains or so, and see what happens.Those .41 and .40 caliber bullets mightdo better (or worse?) with a lighter charge.

5. I wish I could have included250 grain Gold Dotsin this session, but didn't have any on hand. Gotta try them in this gun.

6. Somewhere down the road I need to try some .457/.458 bullets in orange sabots. I have a good supply of Lee castbullets in 340 grains and 420 grains, and Remington 300 grain jacketed hollow points. Any one of them would make a fine hunting bullet if they shoot well, and the Lees would sure be cheap shooting.

FINAL CONCLUSION: New guns are fun!!!

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Looks like a lot of shooting going on there. Have you tried the dredded Shockwaves out of the rifle yet?

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

No, I haven't tried them Cayugad. But I do have a half dozen boxes of .45-300 SSTs that I bought cheap about two years ago. They didn't shoot well in the Mustang and have been sitting in the bottom of my bullet bag doing nothing. I'll give them a try one day, but for hunting I have a lot of faith in the Gold Dots.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Well that Triple Seven group of 95 grains looks real good. I looked at an Optima nickel barrel at Wal Mart today and it never even tempted me.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Yeah, but you DID look, didn't you? :D

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

I don't know if I believe that.:D it must be on your mind or you wouldn't be talking about it. Come on now.... you want it and you know it. Don't be afraid to stand up and say "Hi everyone. My name is Cayugad and I am a black powder junkie."

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

It's pretty evident which combos it likes so far!! Great report.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Semi I settled on 70 grains BH209. Very good acurracy with the 18 grain GDs & 200 grain SWs. Never made it past that with BH209. hunting season started. Now, all season long I wondered if 70 grains was enough. It punched through a doe at 70 yards, but all it hit was a rib on the way in. I wanted to try the 210 GDs but I could hardly get them loaded. [:@] Did you let the barrel cool between shots. My X7s barrel would heat up after 2 shots, then give me a flyer.
OH yeah Thanks for a great range report.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Hey burntmuch. I do think the 210 and 200 grain bullets may shoot better with lighter charges. In my first session with the X7 using the factory sights I got a pretty decent group with the 200 grain XTPs and 70 grains of Pyrodex.It was only 25 yards, but still - I figured I would get better groupsat 100 yardsthan what you see in this report. A repeat of the session with 80 grains of powder instead of 95 will tell the tale. Should be interesting. In my first session I reported that the 70 grains load "just 'felt right' for this gun. It had a sharp crack to it, and light recoil."

The210Gold Dots loaded fine in my barrel - tight, but not really difficult.

I was shooting pretty steady, making no allowances for barrel cooling.Although the time it tookto do a two-sided wipeand the alcoholon the patch did provide some cooling, the barrel was warm to the touch for the entire session.

Man, I can't figure out if shooting is cutting into my hunting time, or hunting is cutting into my shooting time. Ain't life tough? :D

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

70 grains BH209 & 200 grain bullet is an absolute pleasure to shoot. Im think thats right around 1600 FPS. Thats just a guess. Plenty for 100 yards. It is a nice gun though isnt it

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

I think your estimate of 1600 fps is right on target. As you probably know, I'm a heavy bullet fan. That's why I'm pleased the 300 GDs show so much promise. But I'm a Gold Dot fan also, and I know those 210 grain .41s would be deadly at that velocity if I can get them to group. You're right, the 200 XTPs werea pleasure to shoot with 70 grains Pyrodex and I've seen a lot of good results on deer reported with that bullet. And yes - it's a VERY nice gun (and my last in-line :D).

I wonder whyCayugad doesn't have an X7????? :D:D

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Im really wondering if BH209 can compete with that95g Pyrodex RS300g SP GDHP/HSB sabot. My Endeavor shot really well with 95g Bh209 with sst 300g/HSB sabot. 95g and anything i can stuff in that HSB sabot seems to shoot good....im gonna go out on a limb any say BH209 can do a little better, but its tough complain about a group like that..... They had a X7 in the bargain cave at the Dundee,MI store, that i kept looking everytime i went there. It had a few stains and pits on the barrel. Someone must of got it cheaper, because it was gone. I never knew they would deal on that stuff. Im glad i know for next time i see something i want....

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

revpilot. Thats where I got my X7 The dundee cabelas

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

FWIW, both 200gr SW with 110gr 777 and 300gr SW with 120gr 777 shoot well in my X7. 250SW in the supplied sabots literally required a hammer to get them down (only tried 2!).

I did not shoot my X7 over a chrono, but the increase in recoil from 100 to 120gr 777 with the 300gr bullet seemed more significant than what would be expected just from the increased powder weight (ie seemed like generating more velocity). I did not confirm with the chrono though. And I'm not sure that while it may burn 120gr with a heavy bullet that it would burn it all with a lighter bullet.

IMHO you'll never really know what is going on until you let the barrel cool down. I go with a minimum of 3min between shooting and loading when doing load development. I have tried without it and groups definitely open up -- I'm sure it's the sabots getting softened.

I think that gun is too pretty for a scope, how about I swap it with your for an Optima?? :D

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

I tend to agree with you spaniel. I hated to put a scope on it. But I took a vote and the "eyes" were in the majority. Thanks for the swap offer, but I think I'll keep the X7. :)
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RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Good report Semi. Will be waiting to hear more. You might want to try some Pyrodex P out of that rifle. The results may surprise you.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

I'd like to bronko, but never see P in any of the storesin this area. RSis about all we get, sometimes Select.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Nice report, very interesting! Looks like the 300 grain Gold Dots should work well for you. I wouldn't give up on the 200 grain XTP though- that's a nice, light-recoiling & flat-shooting bullet that performs well on deer.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Heck semi, i just call my gun shop and tell him to order me some. Maybe you can do the same. I just got 2 more cans of it on Saturday.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Good idea bronko. Never even thought of asking. :eek: (Caution: Brain Disengaged!)

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Original post edited 1/12/09 to add Blackhorn targets. New section in blue.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Semi

Would you be upset with me if I said - I do not really like many of those groups... (and I am not trying to be critical) but it really make me wonder...

I guess I really thought the gun would shoot better than what you are showing... And since it is new maybe it will as it gets broke in

I am looking for the package of targets you sent me - but they must be out in the shooting box.... I thought the grid was a 1" grid. Am I wrong?

The BH loads really surprise me... You indicateyou were shooting the Harvester Short Black - How tight are they going down? Did you try any HPH-24's

If you get a chance - shoot a couple of groups at 50 - I would like to see the size of that vs the 100

Again not trying to rain on the parade - honestly - I just assumed more better...

mike

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

I understand your thinking Sabotloader. Based on the load experiments in this post I decided to work up a hunting load withT7 FFG, Harvester short black sabots, and the 300 Gold Dot. You will be seeing a post on that shortly.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Also I never swabbed when I shot blackhorn. Actually I fowled the barrel first and it started to behave a lot better then. I still think you need to try some shockwaves with that rifle. It just might not like them Speer. :D

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Semi

Dave could be right - I know I have to shoot Speers with a pretty hefty charge to drive them really accurately and consistently @ and beyond 100 yards.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

I may try those 300 grain SST's I've got sitting in the bottom of my bullet bag, but I've got a Gold Dot load that's working OK at 100 yards. Good enough, in fact, that I really don't care aboutfooling around with Blackhorn any more.I haven't tried it at 150/175 yet becauseI'm about out of Gold Dots, so I won't get a chance to do that for another few weeks.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

Seems to me your gun wants a 300 gr bullet.

Give FPBs a try, they may suprise you. I'm sure you can get a 150 yd load with BH 209 easily enough.

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

It is my experance that any wiping or swabbing with BH will spoil the grouping every time, this is so with every load and every gun I have shot it in. Lee

RE: Playing With The X7 (12 Target Pictures)
 

250 grain Shockwaves over 100 grains of Pyrodex is what I shoot out of my X7. Very satisfied with that combo for 50 - 100 yds.

RE: Playing With The X7 - BLACKHORN TARGETS ADDED
 

Semisane, I tried BH209 today for the 1st time. In fact it was the 1st time I fired my new Encore Pro. I found it diificult to even get the shots on target paper. I thought at 1st it was the due to the wind and cold temperatures was the reason for the poor performance. Then I discovered that the sharp recoil curve of the BH 209 caused the scope to recoil forward in the mounts. The recoil is very sharp compared to Pyrodex or Black powder. I've retightened the mount and rings and will give it another try when it gets a little warmer. I hope it works out because it is certainly easy to clean up and loads withload having to run a patch between shots. ( And the hands stay clean)

RE: Playing With The X7 - BLACKHORN TARGETS ADDED
 

The Blackhorn was easy to clean from the barrel, but it left a hard black varnish-like coating on the primer side of the breech plug that I've never seen before. It was a bear to get off.