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After reading the thread on fragmentation I hateto itsay but I'm as confused as ever. I'm only in my second year with a muzzle loader and was going to try the Nosler Partition 300g XTP over 100g of BH209. I want a bullet that fragments very little but expands and gives me a pass through. I don't want to start an argument but what bullets in particular do hold together and perform well on marginal shots?

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That nosler will expand perfect and not fragment. I think you will be real happy with it.

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The Nosler Partition 300g is an excellent bullet that hold together very well. There are two Noslers, the Nosler HG 300g:

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0011545350

and the 300g Nosler Rifle Bullet:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat602007-cat20843&id=0009895213950a&navCount=2& podId=0009895&parentId=cat20843&masterpath id=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IJ&rid= &parentType=index&indexId=cat20843&has JS=true

I use the HG (Hand Gun) for deer. Sabotloader uses the 260g Rifle bullet for deer. The HG is .451 diameter, the rifle bullet is .458 diameter.

This Nosler Partition was shot into a 6 point buck at 50 yards in the brisket facing me, I found it under the hide in the rear leg of the deer. It shot the whole length of the deer, expanded perfectly and was the only one I ever recovered, all the rest shot thru deer. The 300g always shoot thru deer (broadside), the 240 and 260g sometimes shoot thru.
Chap

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loadbreak

I shoot Nosler Partitions and have shot them for several decades... they are a great bullet... problem is you relly do not get a chance to recover to many...

The 50 cal Noslers are designed to espand to .75/.80" - down to the partition and then continue to penetrate. They are designed to open in fleah as well as bone. It is a well know fact that they have a greater expansion range than most any other bullet. Not ony do they well and penetrate they do cause a tremendous amount of 'hydrostatic' or hydraulic' pressure that causes the delicate vital organs to explode and change to 'jello'

Here is a picture of a .458 Nosler recovered from an elk. i estimated (I am terrible at it) but I estimated close to 200 yards - it lasered right @ 180.



This is a .452/260 grain Nosler recovered from a stump behind where I shot a whitetail...



If you look at both bullets you can see the long bullet shank loaded with lead that keeps the bullet driving until expends all of it's energy or exits the animal.... and most of the it will.

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Thanks cayugad and chap. I didn't realize thatthere were two types. I'm assuming you would chose one over the other depending on the velocities that your'e shooting?Would the .458 rifle bullet take a specialsabot to fit down an Omega barrel?

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Thanks Sabot Loader, that is an awesome looking bullet and exactly what I'm looking for. Is the 300g overkill for deer?

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No, it really isn't - but in the terrain that I hunt in I really do need the 300 to reach out that extra yardage. The 260 works great for me to 175 yards - but more importantly it works just as well at 10 yards when shooting a thin-skinned whitetail. The .458/300 grain Nosler is really a stronger bullet and can get in and out of a deer before it really can expand a whole lot when shot at very close ranges. After 50 yards it works just fine and past 175 it probably works better than the 260. I really so not see a lot of difference in the the .451/300 Nosler and the .458/300 Nosler - they are both Partition and they are both Protected Points... almost flat nosed. The 260 is a HP, but the nose is really well designed....

Amoung the rifles that I shoot is an Omega - it is an older one with a .502 bore so the MMP HPH-.487/.458-50 Orange sabot works very well in it. If you have a really tight bored newer Omega you may have to use the .451 Nosler.

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Yes, a Harvester Crushed Rib sabot works for the .458 bullets or .452 bullet. Sabotloader likes the Orange MMP for his .458 300g bullets.
Chap

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They are an excellent bullet, the only problem with them is the price. There are a quite a few good bullets for deer its the bigger game that I believe needs a careful choice. Lee

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I managed to pull one out of a buck I shot with a 20 ga. They're Nosler Partitions 260 gr and I think they are .458 cal. This one passed through a hard 1/4'ing away deer through the paunch, liver, lungs and was found in the off leg. Range 30 yds. Ballasticly I think they are pretty close to a 110 gr 2fT7 load.

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I don't think you can go wrong with the Noslers. I plan to try them myself soon for my X7.

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I hope so , I dont claim to be the best shot but if I can shoot a bullet that wont add to my ineffencies then with practice I think I'm moving in the right direction.

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loadbreak
We all talk about bullet placement as being the key to success... but I have found in my many years of hunting that I have not always been able to get the game to cooperate and offer the 'pose' or for me to be at the right spot at the right time to take advantage of the 'pose'. Most often I have found that I have to take advantage of the situation as it is or pass on the shot. It is my feeling that the Noslers offers you a margin of error and still harvest your game. Everytime I pull the trigger on an animal - I am aiming at the spot that I want the projectile to hit at what ever given range. But when shooting a ML there are far more varibles than shooting a centerfire - in most circumstances - the Nolser allows me to miss my mark a bitand still drop the game. When I sight the gun in I use a technique with 6" point blank range built in. From 0 yards to 175 yards (for the bullets I use) the most I can miss by aiming dead on is 6" - 3" up or 3" down.... Sounds good but the othervariables in theequation can change it also - wind being the biggest factor and angle of the shot being another. Still the Nosler allows the larger margin of error - not that i want any error but it doesoccur.

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Well said. I do exactly the same 3" high at 100 yards with all my MLers, put you at 170 or so MPBR. Chap

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Any one ever pull the tip out of an SST? The hollow point is nearly 1/4" deep. The only SST I ever recovered from a deer expanded well and the base was intact. It hit a lot of bone (5 ribs) and was found under skin. Without the tip they should expand quickly. Just a wild thought. I am sticking with Noslers.

Charlie

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Don't be deceived by the "pointy" look of the SST. Plastic tips in bullets can HELP them expand. That poly-tip is forced back into the hollow cavity behind and starts the expansion process. A poly-tip bullet and a pointy bullet where the copper jacket extends almost to the tip are very different animals.

How many centerfire varmint bullets are so designed??? Most of them.... They expand very quickly if the area behind the poly-tip is appropriately designed...

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There was a study on hollow point bullets in one of the books I have read, it claimed that the biggest problem and the reason that two identical bullets could react different to the same circumstances was that the hollow point would sometimes cut a hide plug that filled the hollow point, and that the hide plug would keep it from acting like a hollow point. I believe that part of the job of the plastic insert is to keep this from happening. Lee

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Spaniel-I see what you are saying,but varment bullets are in a whole nutter class,speed wise.I have had problems with SST not expanding unless they impacted bone,as have others. Just like most things in life some swear by them,some swear at them. I have not been happy with SST,performance rate was 50%,although I recovered all the deer. I think maybe they would perform better at lower speeds and shorter ranges with the tips removed.I may be all wet though. They might blow up.

Charlie

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you could be right.

i like the 295 pb hollow pointwith my HAWKINS .50 CAL FLINTLOCK.

it does shoot very good,loads great,i can LOAD DOWN not upand my shots are never over 75 yds usually.

it works real good on a buck but i only shoot behind shoulder or buck walks.

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How did you verify that the bullets did not expand? Unless it is recovered it's very difficult to tell what is happening from just looking at the exit wound. I recently posted a pic of an XTP I found that had exited a deer and was laying on the snow behind. The exit wound was relatively unimpressive and one could have argued the bullet did not expand but in fact it did, I only know because I recovered it. I've seen a lot of SST/SW wounds and I can't say I've yet seen an exit hole that looked 40/45cal and nothing more. I've also seen some of the smaller exit holes have phenominal damage inside the animal. I can't explain the performance of every bullet shot by everyone here, but I am surprised by the disparity between some people's experience with this particular bullet and what appears to be most of us having fine luck. Sometimes I wonder if it's just a result of the fact that this bullet is probably being used by more people than other options?

Depending on the exact bullet you are talking about, I've heard more complaints personally about the 250s blowing up than not expanding.

I'm a little confused on your point with the varmint bullets. It looks like you are implying that they are a different animal because they're traveling faster, but you think an SST will perform better if you shoot it SLOWER? That strikes me as opposites.

My point by bringing them up is that plastic tips are often used in designs to aid in expansion. As someone shares earlier, I think it was Hornaday is coming out with modified XTPs that utilize a plastic tip to keep the hollowpoint from filling up with clothing and not expanding. Indeed, Corbin sells polymer balls you can swag into the tips of the bullets you are making to help them open better. Those poly tips are actually harder than the lead behind them, and drive backwards to force the bullet to open outwards.

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Spaniel-All the deer I ever shot with an XTP or Nosler,I never recovered a bullet.All wound channels and exits were impressive. my problem is with the SST. I shot 4 deer with them and recovered all 4. 2 went down and 2 ran a long way. The last I shot was a big doe shot quarter to me. The pics are posted on another thread here. I recovered the bullet (also pic posted). This deer ran a long way and I feel that the bullet did not expand until it hit the ribs on the far side.The internal damage was no where what I have seen with either XTP or Nosler bullets.This is only my experience,I know others have had good luck with them.Dead is dead however and I did recover all of them. My thing is some places I hunt(close to posted land) I have to drop them quickly. I can count on the Nosler to do that and I do nottrust the SST.

Charlie

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Wish I could locate that pick, now you have me interested...

If you absolutely positively need them to drop on the spot, I'd agree to try something besides an SST but not sure what to say...I have not tried the Noslers yet. I have tried 300gr hollowpoints that are supposed to open to the size of a quarter, and had a deer run 200 yards. Honestly, more important than the bullet is just to shoot them with ANY bullet high in the shoulder whenever possible. I've racked up an impressive number of bang-flops with the 200gr SW at all ranges. Two years and 7 deer with not a step taken by any of them. I just don't shoot low(heart shot) anymore.

I once shota button buck at 6 feet (yes, feet) with a hollowpoint 12-gauge slug -- didn't even shoulder thegun, just stuck the barrel out from the hip and fired (yes the recoil sucked!!). Blew away the top 2/3 of the heart and literally sent most of the lungs out the far side (sabot pieces were left INSIDE the deer). It still ran about 40 yards leaving a 6-ft wide stream of red.

Another year I shot two does on consecutive nights standing in the same spot where a trail emerged into a field. Same gun, same bullet (240gr HTP, predecessor to the XTP), shot from same location. Shot placement was as identical as physically possible, top half of the heart and low through both lungs. One dropped in its tracks, the other ran 100 yards.

This is why I say bullets are over-hyped and placement under-emphasized. I have yet to see a bullet that won't drop a shoulder-shot deer, or a bullet that will consistently drop a heart/low lung shot deer in their tracks.

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I have tried a lot of bullets and take over 120 deer, and discounting the brain and spine targets where any bullet will drop them it still comes down to a certain amount of bullet placement, hitting the area over the top of the heart where the major blood vessels all come together, from the side this takes out both lungs to. Now the original SW 250gr would do the job here I am not so sure about the bonded ones or the new ones the reports since they changed them have not been good, the noslers and the Gold Dot 250 have been very dependable, with a proper hit the gold Dot in my opinion is the most reliable drop them on the spot bullet out the, and the fact that they are reasonably priced compared to the dollar or more a piece bullets don't hurt my feelings either. Lee

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RE: Shockwave/SST Scorecard - 12/9/2008 12:22:00 AM

Spaniel the pics were posted for me by Cayudad showing inside and outside exit wounds and the recovered bullet

Charlie