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245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
I've got a few friends that use muzzle loaders also and they all shoot 245 grain bullets. Some use Powerbelts and some use Shockwaves. I myself have been shooting 295 grain Powerbelts in mine and at 100 yards it is super accurate. I'm really happy with it and and I killed a 8 pointer with these bullets and 2 pyrdex 50/50 pellets. It was around 123 yards and I aimed high. Right at the top of the back knowning how much faster bullets drop out of this thing and I hit him right where I wanted to. I think the gun may have been shooting slightly low at that time but I'm not positive. Since I'm having such good luck with this combo is it what I should stick with? I have about 25 or 30 bullets left so not too eager to switch I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on something by not using the 245 grain bullets? Or is it just whatever your gun wants to shoot? BTW the 295 grian Powerbelts are all I've ever shot when it comes to black powder guns.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Thought I'd add in that the bullets did not pass through. The first shot which was about perfect went and poked the skin out on the other side of the deer but didn't break the skin. The second shot which was after he was on the ground. He couldn't get up and was flapping around so I shot him again in the back as I wasn't sure at that time where I had hit him the first time and I didn't want him to suffer. I couldn't get a shot behind his shoulders again as he kept putting his head there so I shot him in the spine at probably 20-30 yards and that one went about halfway through him but didn't come back out either. It went down towards the bottom of him it wasn't a spine shot from the side. Had I know how great of a shot the first one had been I might not have taken the 2nd one as it just wasted a little bit of meat. I was afraid he would get away though as I wasn't sure if I had hit him where I wanted to.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
I don't shoot powerbelts but from what I have taken in you are pushing the envelope for what those bullets will take with a 100gr charge. Powerbelts are famous for fragmenting if you push them too fast.
Personally, a bullet that does not consistently exit on a broadside shot on a deer is too frangible for me. I would pick something that holds together a little better like a Shockwave, Barnes, XTP etc. As for weight, opinions vary. I take a ton of deer with 200gr bullets (SW). Most people go around 240-250gr with some up to 300gr and higher. On deer I thing the 250gr range is a happy medium, and the better 200gr bullets (SW, 195gr Dead Center) are good too. I'm not a big fan of the 180gr hollowpoints. |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
There is very very little difference in drop between the 245 and 295gr powerbelt. Heavier is always better. I know that with 80gr pyrodex rs and a 295, sighted dead on @ 100 i am 7" low @ 150. Your 2 pellet load is fine for 100+ yard shooting, but if you get something within 10 to 60 yards. Its going to fragment. I'd suggest using 80gr ( 1 50gr pellet and 1 30gr pellet) Or loose powder. The performance of the bullet will be so much better. Or you can switch to the 270gr-300gr Platinum.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Almost all spots I hunt with the muzzle loader you get a 100-150 yard shot. One place 200 yards or so but I don't think I'd take a shot that far off with it. That's why I'm thinking I like the 100 grains of pellets. I'm not sure that my muzzle loader can handle any more than that which is why I've stuck with 100. I don't have the manual as I bought it used but it's a Marlin MLS-50.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Some can probably guess what I'm going to say.............try FPBs.
They are similar to a PB in that they are full bore size, no sabot needed. They have a thicker jackt than PB, and are not supposed to fragment. The Hornady site indicates great terminal performance between 800 and 200 fps. Only one weight right now, 350 gr (heavy is good). The site also indicates you can get almost 1500 fps with 130 gr of powder, as I recall. That is a 150 yd load (2.75 high at 75, zero at 125, 3.5 low at 150) that will just wilt a deer. I'm shooting 100 gr now, but over the summer I'll mess with it to see what a heavier charge will do for accuracy. Right now I'm 2" high at 50, good to 125 wit a center of mass POA. |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
100gr pellets
245gr AT = 8" low @ 200 *So they say* 295gr AT = 9" low @ 200. Not a huge difference at all. Always go with the bigger bullet. |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
I shoot 245 grain Powerbelt Arrowtips out of my CVA Kodiak Mag over 2 pellets of 777. I have only ever recovered one bullet from ranges 15 - 150 yards. All others have been passthroughs. I understand the argument of "heavier is better", but IMHO, I have not seen thedifference of 50 grainsmakinga dead deer vs a wounded one. Put either one in the boiler room and down they go.
I tested the 295gr and the 245gr. I shoot the 245gr mostly because my gun grouped them better at the yardages I was shooting over the 295gr. With the 245 grain, I knowanything within 140 yards, I can aim dead on and fire. The bullet will hit accuratley. To give a specific answer, the only thing I think you may be missing with the 245grain is not having to use as much "hold over" as compared to the 295gr. However, the 295gr will give you more "punch" when it gets there with less winddrift. |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
I did forget to mention I guess the ones I'm shooting are the hollow point ones. I've tried the Aero Tip ones as I bought some by mistake and they did okay I just had always used the hollow point ones so went back to using those.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
with hp's i deff. would not use 2 pellets.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: FG with hp's i deff. would not use 2 pellets. |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
If you have something under 60 yards, the bullets going to come apart. With the HP, it will do it a lot sooner.
295gr HP- 58 yards- Pyrodex RS. 100gr 90gr 80gr  Heres a 295gr HP shot with 80gr Triple 7 @ 40-50 yards, Bigdaddy posted this a couple days ago. This is perfect as it did not over expand nor does it look like it shed much weight. judging the center, I would easily say that 80gr Triple 7 should be max. That center if it gets to thin, thats where you run into fragmenting issues.  |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Oh ok thanks. I will post pictures of the two bullets I recovered shortly. How far can I expect to shoot with 50 or 80 grains of powder instead of 100?
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
These are the two bullets I recovered. Both are 295 grain Power Belts with 100 grains of powder. Well 2 50 grain pellets. One was around 123 yards and the other was around 30 yards or so. Maybe not quite that but I'd say that's a close guess.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...0mmVX-I016.jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...0mmVX-I013.jpg It looks like the one did come apart some as you are stating. |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
80gr RS "Or whatever you powder choice is" 150 yards.
If you're sighted dead on @ 100, the bullet drop will be 7" @ 150. I put my blade/fiber optics right on their back and squeeze the trigger when they are 150 yards away. With a scope you can easily judge the 7" drop. |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
The bullet on the left is great. Expanded right down to the HP. Bullet on the right i can see in the other pic was starting to shred.
Bullet on the right had some heat on it! I've never seen one come out purple and blue :D Which bullet was the first shot?   On this forum you have to copy the HTTP code and then hit the yellow button with the mountain and paste the code there. |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Oh ok thanks. I can't remember which one was the first shot. That's the bad thing. I'm for some reason thinking it might have been the left one but honestly I can't remember so I have no idea.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
in our flintlock hawkins we use 295/348 pb.
hollow ones. we like them because we can LOAD DOWN ,not up on powder and it will work great. like i use 80 grs of 2f in my hawkins with 295 gr . if you push ANY hollow point bullet fast at close range, say 60 to 80 yds, its going to blow up. now, thats not bad if you hit buck behind shoulder but if you hit him in shoulder, thats not good. sooooooooooooooo, we slow the PB bullets down,we get great groups,no kick to rifle,bullet operns up very good at slower speed. what else would we want. i like gun that does not kick your head off or sounds like a cannon going off and still kill a deer out to 125 yds . almost all my bucks are shot at 50 yds or less |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Not here to debate the fragmentation of the PB's, but the 245gr arrowtips have never come apart on me shooting 2 pellets of 777. The bullet below actually went through a small 2 - 3 inch diameter tree before killing a big doe. I found the bullet under the opposite skin from the entry hole with the bottom green plastic piece still attached. Ialways meant to get back to the area and take a picture of the tree, but forgot my camera everytime I went back. Range was ~40 yards. I agree that velocity has a lot to do with this and I have no idea what velocity the CVA Kodiak Mag was producing with this load.
For a broad generalization, is there any truth to say the arrowtips will hold together better at higher velocities then the hollowpoints? The arrowtips shot great out of my gun and preformed great on ever deer I shot, so I never tried a different load.  |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: Kathwacckkk Not here to debate the fragmentation of the PB's, but the 245gr arrowtips have never come apart on me shooting 2 pellets of 777. The bullet below actually went through a small 2 - 3 inch diameter tree before killing a big doe. I found the bullet under the opposite skin from the entry hole with the bottom green plastic piece still attached. Ialways meant to get back to the area and take a picture of the tree, but forgot my camera everytime I went back. Range was ~40 yards. I agree that velocity has a lot to do with this and I have no idea what velocity the CVA Kodiak Mag was producing with this load. For a broad generalization, is there any truth to say the arrowtips will hold together better at higher velocities then the hollowpoints? The arrowtips shot great out of my gun and preformed great on ever deer I shot, so I never tried a different load. + S.;)
USE AERO TIPS/PLATINUM PB IN THE IN-LINES. USE THE HOLLOW POINT PB IN FLINTLOCKS.;) |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
So exactly what is the big deal if the powerbelt fragments a bit with two 50 grain pellets? Lots of other type bullets may fragment also yet will KILL the deer. Any bullet I have ever recovered had some sort of fragmentation in fact. If the brunt of a 245 or 295 grain bullet will be passing through the deer's vitals even with some fragmentation I can't see the deer going very far.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: Steve863 So exactly what is the big deal if the powerbelt fragments a bit with two 50 grain pellets? Lots of other type bullets may fragment also yet will KILL the deer. Any bullet I have ever recovered had some sort of fragmentation in fact. If the brunt of a 245 or 295 grain bullet will be passing through the deer's vitals even with some fragmentation I can't see the deer going very far. if you hit the shoulder, oh my.:( now,with a IN-LINE with scope, you have a great chance to shoot a buck behind shoulder BUT with a flintlock hawkins.50 cal;)i guess you can see i like this gun, with open sights,you better slow your bullet down because you could hit shoulder and not behind the shoulder.;) |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: sproulman USE AERO TIPS/PLATINUM PB IN THE IN-LINES. USE THE HOLLOW POINT PB IN FLINTLOCKS.;) |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: livbucks ORIGINAL: sproulman USE AERO TIPS/PLATINUM PB IN THE IN-LINES. USE THE HOLLOW POINT PB IN FLINTLOCKS.;) |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: Steve863 So exactly what is the big deal if the powerbelt fragments a bit with two 50 grain pellets? Lots of other type bullets may fragment also yet will KILL the deer. Any bullet I have ever recovered had some sort of fragmentation in fact. If the brunt of a 245 or 295 grain bullet will be passing through the deer's vitals even with some fragmentation I can't see the deer going very far. http://www.the-gleasons.com/powerbelt_page.htm There are MANY defenders of PBs, I don't wanna get into a war of words with you all--you know my positiion on them if you have been on this forum very long. I just want a new MLing people to think about their bullet choice. STRONG non fragmenting bullets are best for all hunting situations and distances in my opinion, why? I would encourage you to read the book "Rifle Bullets for the Hunter, A Definitive Study" by Richard Mann and a host of others to make up your own mind.The MLing chapter was written by Bryce Towsley, Am Hunter MLing editor. Excellent read: http://www.riflebullets.net/ Great Christmas gift for anyone who hunts. If you follow the evolution of a man like Towsley (He wrote about the Benoits of Maine back in the 70's) and see what he uses NOW, then you will understand why a STRONG expanding bullet is required to sometimes kill big bucks, honestly nearly anything will kill a bow shot on a small doe or small buck. Chap  |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: livbucks ORIGINAL: sproulman USE AERO TIPS/PLATINUM PB IN THE IN-LINES. USE THE HOLLOW POINT PB IN FLINTLOCKS.;) for a flintlock, i would use the hollow point ones and shoot like 80 grs in .50 cal. for the in-lines, i would use the new platium ones at wal mart now on sale for 15 dollars or so. did you know that BEST velocity/fps etc was attained in testing on .50 cal is 70 grs of 2f with a 490 rb. and around 80 grains with the MAXI-BALL 370.. so, for flintlock .50cal,i would not be above 80 grs with rd ball or conical if you want great groups and best velocity. ' also, gun will not kick like mule and noise is a lot less.;) |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman ORIGINAL: Steve863 So exactly what is the big deal if the powerbelt fragments a bit with two 50 grain pellets? Lots of other type bullets may fragment also yet will KILL the deer. Any bullet I have ever recovered had some sort of fragmentation in fact. If the brunt of a 245 or 295 grain bullet will be passing through the deer's vitals even with some fragmentation I can't see the deer going very far. http://www.the-gleasons.com/powerbelt_page.htm There are MANY defenders of PBs, I don't wanna get into a war of words with you all--you know my positiion on them if you have been on this forum very long. I just want a new MLing people to think about their bullet choice. STRONG non fragmenting bullets are best for all hunting situations and distances in my opinion, why? I would encourage you to read the book "Rifle Bullets for the Hunter, A Definitive Study" by Richard Mann and a host of others to make up your own mind.The MLing chapter was written by Bryce Towsley, Am Hunter MLing editor. Excellent read: http://www.riflebullets.net/ Great Christmas gift for anyone who hunts. If you follow the evolution of a man like Towsley (He wrote about the Benoits of Maine back in the 70's) and see what he uses NOW, then you will understand why a STRONG expanding bullet is required to sometimes kill big bucks, honestly nearly anything will kill a bow shot on a small doe or small buck. Chap
in a in-line ,NO WAY I WOULD USE THE HOLLOW POINT PB. 25 years ago we got idea to use 90 gr hollow point bullets in our 250-3000 sav rifles on deer. we wounded so many deer we threw those bullets away. why, because we were pushing those bullets at 3,000fps  .speed and hollow point bullet is awful thing.[:@] |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Sproul, I shoot the copper Hollowpoint 295 in my 1-48 twist flintlock pushed by 80 grains 777 in 2f, which equals about 92 grains if shooting BP 2f. So you think I should slow it down? I hardly feel a kick at that load as it is. How far out do you shoot with PB?
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: livbucks Sproul, I shoot the copper Hollowpoint 295 in my 1-48 twist flintlock pushed by 80 grains 777 in 2f, which equals about 92 grains if shooting BP 2f. So you think I should slow it down? I hardly feel a kick at that load as it is. How far out do you shoot with PB? |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Just thought I would add this to the discusion. This is a 295 grain Hollow point powerbelt, with 80 grains of 777 loose powder, and a Winchester 209 priimer. Shot out of a CVA Wolf.;)
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Did that hit a deer, and where at?
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
Yep, I shot a doe with it, but I didnt get any pics of the doe. She was quartering away from me. It went in the right sideabout midway back, and clipped the lower part of the spine, then went thru everything in side, making a mess.[:@]Exit was on theleft side right behind the shoulder. It wend thru the ribs, but did not exit the hide. Did not fragment at all. I would have liked for it to be a pass thru, but it did drop her in her tracks.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
I have seen deer shot close range with 12 gauge slugs and they came to rest under the hide opposite side. The hide on the exit side can act as a catchers mitt sometimes, so that isn't all that different than a pass-thru. It still penetrated the entire body. poking through the skin wouldn't make any more difference. The more a bullet expands, the easier for the hide to stop it from coming out I guess.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
I agree, but I like to have an entrance, AND an exit hole. Without the exit hole, if my doe would not have dropped in her tracks, I might have had a very small blood trail, because the entrance hole was hight. But then on the other hand, it is nice to recoveer the bullet.
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RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: livbucks Sproul, I shoot the copper Hollowpoint 295 in my 1-48 twist flintlock pushed by 80 grains 777 in 2f, which equals about 92 grains if shooting BP 2f. So you think I should slow it down? I hardly feel a kick at that load as it is. How far out do you shoot with PB? most of buck i killed over years with my flintlock have never been over 75 yds. if i see buck farther than that, i get closer. i do carry a walking stick. to hunt this way, you never seem to find a tree when you need it,so i built a pole with a hook onside to rest my gun. that stick has got me a few buck i would have missed. i also use the 6 o,clock hold,this way your sight does not cover the deer. the 370 maxi-ball behind 80 grs of 2f is great load for deer. stay away from the MAXI-HUNTERS. i , like you like the pb because i dont have to use that bore butter in winter, it freezes badly. i also leave my charge in my gun for whole season. leave gun in truck bed or back as far as you can in your suv so moisture does not get at it and leave gun in garage,not in home at night. if you dont,shoot it out every couple days but at buck a shot, i leave mine loaded and it works fine all season at times. holow point powerbellts , in my opinion for flintlock are best bullet out there because you can LOAD DOWN , not up and stil have bullet that will open up on deer. secret to shooting a flintlock is not jerking because of recoil, smoke,noise and with a powerbelt loaded no more than 80 grs in .50 cal, its a very nice gun to shoot;) |
RE: 245 grain vs 295 grain bullets?
ORIGINAL: BigDaddy12t I agree, but I like to have an entrance, AND an exit hole. Without the exit hole, if my doe would not have dropped in her tracks, I might have had a very small blood trail, because the entrance hole was hight. But then on the other hand, it is nice to recoveer the bullet. your shots were quick and times you did not get best shot on buck . those MAXI-BALLS are about best bullet for that type of hunting. it will break bones and come out the other side. now, i dont hunt that way, i sit and walk now by myself so i get broadside shots at deer that are not excited. so, i like powerbellt 295/348 for this type of hunting. |
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