Can one of you folks tell me why I might like 3f over 2f or vise versa.Been shootinf 2f in KRB w/110gr.Bullets it groups well with are the 250gr Barnes Spit Fires and 250gr.Shock Waves.Consistant 1 to 1 1/4' groups.Just want to know the science behind 3f.Also,use w209 primers.Any need for a different primer w/3f? Thanks...hunt4me

Which powder are you shooting???

The grains of FFF are smaller than the grains of FF...Since they are smaller, they burn cleaner and leave less fouling in the barrel...You should reduce your charges by about 10% to get the same velocities...In my .54 flintlock I have tried both FF and FFF in Goex powder...I get less fouling with FFF over FF and I also reduced my charge from 100grs to 80grs, giving me more shots per pound of powder...

That being said, if you are getting good groups with FF, there isn't any real reason to change...

There is no reason to change your primer to get good ignition...

3F is a finer granulation than 2F. 3F is supposed to to produce more pressure than 2F by volume (not sure about weight, but I would think equal volume of 3F weighs more than 2F).Therefore, if your gun is rated for a max load of 150 gr of 2F, a 150 gr load of 3F may exceed your max recommended load. More pressure should equal more velocity. No telling what will happen to accuracy, you'd need to shoot to know.

I can't answer your question about primers, but I have not heard that 209s cannot or should not be used with 3F, for what that's worth.

HUNT4ME
It depends on which FFFpowder you are talking about to some extent, with black powder the pressure builds faster which under some circumstances can be advantageous as with conicals you need to upset or flair or light bullets as the 50/40 200gr SW it is also often used with short barrels to get a complete powder burn. Pyrodex is very similar to black, 777 shows less difference but still burns a bit faster than 2F there is no distinction in Blackhorn only one grade and there has been so many problems wit the APP powders I wont even comment on them. Hope this helps .Lee

If your rifle shoots well with 2f then by all means stick with it. The advantage some find by switching to the 3f powder is in cold weather is it easer to ignite, and the additional spike in energy is a bonus to them that are looking for a little more velocity. Still if you do not get better accuracy, the small bonus in velocity is not worth the smaller grains of powder..

In a nut shell, the 3F burns faster, you do have to reduce your charge weight 10%, but as Cayugad said, the amount of improvement you get may not be worth it. But try it and see what it does with your particular combination.

I have done this with Blackpowder and have not tried this with the substitutes out there, and I had/have a couple guns that love this stuff and that is what I shoot. The one gun that it didn't make a difference in was my Traditions 45 caliber with that darneded 1:20 twist barrel, once the powder charge peaks over 80 grains 2F or 70-75 grains 3F that is it, make accuracy is obtained. Good luck.

Thanks guys.That is exactly what I needed.Went to the range this morning and shot off some of each 777 2f and then 3f.Got my normal 1 to 1 1/4 " 5 shot groups on two strings of 2f.Then went to 3f.Groups opened to about 1 3/4 ".Was loading 110gr.of each.Did not know of the idea of reduceing charge when useing 3f.Not unhappy at all with the 2f grouping, just tinkering I guess.Thanks again for all your replys.I continue to learn so much from this site. hunt4me

Tinkering is all part of the fun of ML shooting. I guess that is why I have Triple 7, Pyrodex RS and P, Goex FFg, FFFg, and FFFFg (priming powder) in ammo boxes. As well as an unknown number of bullet types, shapes, calibersand sizes. Also a rack full of MLs. Of course I'll probably never catch up to Cayugad.

bronko... my collection has been going down due to greedy muzzleloader poor relatives and my generosity.. you probably have more rifles then I have. I do try and keep all brands of powder, shot, ball, and projectiles around the house. Along with a good supply of assortments to shoot them all off in a reasonable manner.

Dave - You know, I think we are related somewhere down the line - and you know, I DON'T HAVE A T/C OMEGA YET.