45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

Hey folks,

I'm new to the site here and haven't been hunting with a muzzleloader too long, so it seems like I'm learning something new about this stuff all the time. I wanted to check to see what you all think about using 45-70 government sierra pro hunter bullets with black high pressure crushed rib sabots (harvester). The bullets are 300 grain .458 bullets and I would be using 2-50 grain pyrodex pellets. I probably didn't need the high pressure sabots, but thats all our local shop had. I was told by sierra that the bullet should expand down to just below 1200 fps. The rifle it would be used in isa Knight Shadow. Thanks for the input.

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

Smokeblower,
Those Sierra bullets are something I'd like to look into. I shoot .458 bullets almost exclusively now, my favorites being the .458 Barnes Originals and the .458 Remington hollowpoints. They both have proven themselves to be the most accurate in my Triumph and my Savage.
Zen

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

smokeblower

I shoot .458/300 grain Noslers for hunting and they work great... but i use the MMP .458/50cal Orange sabot. 110 grains of T7-2f...

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

I shoot the .458 diameter bullets from my LEE mold. They are a 405 grain but actually weigh 423 grains. I shoot them out of an orange Knight .458 sabot. On the factory ammo if you try to load them into a black .452 sabot, they sometimes do not sit down on the bottom of the sabot and they do not load right...

I think Midway USA sells the orange .458 sabots.

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

Hey Cayugad, try sizing those Lees to .451 or .452 and shooting them with regular sabots. I haven't played with them a lot yet, but did try a few of the 340 grain Lees sized to .451 in three different sabots - two over 80 grains (weight)T7 and one over 80 grains volume GOEX. They didn't do great at 50 yards, but showed enough promise to try with different loads and powders. I also want to try the 340's sized to .452 and the420's sized to .451 and .452. So many things to try - so little time at the range.

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

I do size many of them to .451 and then I shoot them out of my White model 97 as a conical. They do real well actually.

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

Amen yes. I am shooting .458 45/70 bullets in my Savage, the Barnes Origonal Semi Spitzer, with the same sabot your using, the .452 Harvester Crushed Rib. I am shooting it out to 200 yards, with a 3" high sight in at 100 yards. I am very confident out to 150yards, 200 I can hit but it is not as accurate as 100. I have also shot the Barnes TSX 45/70 Rifle Bullet, Barnes Part Number 45843, I got excellent accuracy with it at BP speeds of about 2000 fps. This 45/70 FlatNose (that is what they call it) has the huge cavity of the Barnes MZ and expands down to 1000 fps, and there is 100% wight retention and shoot thru, so in my mind this is one excellent bullet for aMLer. Here is my group with that bullet and the same Harvester sabot your using (I was using 44g of 5744 powder, which is about the same velocity as 100g of Blackhorn 209). I believe, Bryce Towsley uses that Sierra bullet in one of his MLers, he talks about 458 45/70 bullets in his MLing section in Rifle Bullets for the Hunter, A Definitive Approach. Get the book, it is a good read. 45/70 bullets are excellent in a MLer.
Chap

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

Here is what these bullets look like, the one on the left is the 275g Barnes XPB, the X Pistol Bullet, the one on the right is the 300g 45843 Barnes TSX. Notice how it looks like the MZ, only .458 not .452.
These are awsome bullets.
Chap Gleason

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

Thanks for the input fellas. I was worried that there might be more difference between a .452 and .458 bullet than I realized or that the rifle bullets may have some expansion issues. It sounds like they should work pretty well on our monster 120 pound coastal Georgia deer. I will be in the woods this weekend and will let you know how they work if the deer cooperate.

RE: 45-70 bullets for 50 cal?
 

Unless you use the correct sabot like cayugad and the others suggest, you may have a hard time loading them if you use a sabot designed for the .452" bullets.
I know .006" isn't much (about 1/2 the thickness of a sheet of paper) But it just may be too tight to load.