bigmossy

Once again I feel I should preface my question with the fact that I'm new to muzzleloading so please excuse me if it's an ignorant question.

I did some experimenting today with my new TC Triumph. Shot Speer Gold Dots, 250gr, .452", along with Harvester 50/45 crushed rib sabots and Triple7 FFFG loose powder.

Started out at 100grains of powder; it shot pretty well. Went to 110gr, then 120gr, andmy groups began to open up a little more. Then tried105 and 95 grains before going back to 100 grains again. It seemed with this combination 100grains seemed to give the best accuracy.

Now, to my point. My TC powder measure only went up to 125grso I was a little unsure about continuing to try loadsabove 120gr. Should I have? Is it possible to find anotherhotter load that produces good accuracy with the same components?

SC Sportsman

I'm no expert but since you don't have any replies...

Its been my experience that both of my rifles shoot best around 90-100gr of powder. It seems to me that if you try to push the bullet faster you pay for it with accuracy. Again, this is just from my experience. Some of the other guys around here that try alot of different loads could probablyverify this. If your rifle shoots good with 100gr. then thats what I'd shoot.

bronko22000

Mossy - Welcome again. And the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
IMO, in a 50 cal., anything over 100 gr is a waste of powder. If you are shooting good with 100 grs then stick with it. I would try dropping down to 80 grs and try it.
When I had my CVA Optima Pro - I called CVA and asked them if it could safely handle 150 gr of powder (3 50 gr pellets). Their answer was 'yes it can but 2 pellets is sufficient. Any additional will be burned after the bullet leaves the barrel. I have a tendacy to agree with him as he was in the technical dept and not a salesperson. That is why I snicker when I hear guys putting 150 gr of powder in their MLs.

cayugad

The reason most powder measures max out at 120 grains is with loose powder, that is a magnum max load. Many times this is or near equal to three 50 grain pellets. Most rifle companies will put a 120 grain loose load as the max limit for their rifles. There is really little need to go over that.

Many large North American game animals are taken with 100-110 grains ofloose powder. If your shots are 150 grains and under I would not concern myself with trying to get the load over 120 grains. If you want to see what magnum loads will do, get some pellets, load three pellets, and in your Truimph try some 250 grain Shockwaves. A lot of the T/C rifles are made to shoot them. And most other rifles shoot them well.

kodiakhuntmaster

I talked to a guy years ago who was into black powder cannons. He told me that there are two "sweet spots" in theory, but only one that is most effecient, the other usually cannot be obtained safely (even with a cannon). He said the most accurate charge with the least amount of powder is what matters, however, if you keep loading in powder, eventually you start to blow unburned powder out of the muzzle. Eventually, you will blow so much unburned powder out of the muzzle that the projectile will be forced out at the same velocity as it did with the first (sweet spot) load. Because even though you are loading in more powder, the powder that isn't burned begins to pile up and slow the projectile down. Kind of like the law of diminishing returns.

This was one guy's theory, so if it's true, it probably wouldn't matter if you tried 120+ grains of powder or not, if you get your best accuracy with 100 grains of powder, that's the most effecient load for your gun and that bullet.

gleason.chapman

Depends on the gun, more often then not the Encores like to shoot around of 150g of pellets and 125 of loose. Omega shoot good around 100 to 110. My Knight Disc like 100 loose, I usually start there and if I get 2" or less at 100, that is fine for me. I don't try to get 1" groups at 100 with tons and tons of tweeking. If a bullet powder sabot and primer don't give < 2.5" at 100 I am not interested in it.
Chap

bigmossy

That makes sense. I suppose what I was thinking of had to do with the harmonics involved; wasn't sure if another accurate load would come around again at 150g or so, for example.

I also didn't realize that 150g of powder and 150g of pellets of the same type were not equal.

Another dumb question: My new TC Triumph is billed as "the new Magnum Muzzleloader".Does this mean that my gun is supposed to shoot magnum loads better?

cayugad

In some cases, 150 grains of loose and 150 grains of pellets are very close. But for instance, 150 grains of Triple Se7en 2f is about 120 grains of loose. Also a lot of time with loose powder, you have to be aware of your barrel length because if it is too short, you might not even burn all the loose powder off. Sometimes people report "flaming pellets." That is powder that never got burned off in the barrel.

Your Triumph is a magnum rifle. It can take 120 grains of loose powder with ease. It can shoot 150 grains of pellets with ease. I am sure with 150 grains of loose it might handle that fine. The question is, would there be accuracy?

Shooting loose, if you have good accuracy with 100 grains of powder, and you start moving up in grains and accuracy falls off, then you know that projectiles does not like the higher loads.

A lot of this muzzleloader stuff is hit and miss. You take a projectile and you see how hard you can, or want to push it.

MLKeith

To answer the question about the "new magnum muzzleloader"; I suspect it is just the advertising department trying out some new words. Any of the present production muzzleloaders are well made enough to perform very well. I doubt that there is much that could be done to improve actual performance. The companies keep doing the little "neat stuff" like twist out breechplugs etc. All of this is nice but does not make them shoot any better. Improvements that actually mean anything are things you can do like bed the rifle if it needs it and shoot a lot of combinations to find what your specific rifle likes.

lemoyne

I guess I have a bit different opinion about some of this, or perhaps we are talking apples and oranges.What powder you are talking about makes a lot of differance,so nd sabotdoes what bullet weight,you can burn more powderbehind a heavy bullet,you can burn more FFF than FF in the same barrel with the same bullet. And the most efficant load may be around 100gr as you compare grains burned to FPS but my chrony says I am still gaining FPS at an appriciable rate when I go over 120gr especally with FFF or BH209.
Some guns do have two sweet spots, my Omega is one of them, usually around 90 gr and some where between 110 and 150 it will shoot minute of anglewith the same bullet and sabot, the heavy load all ways shoots just a bit better especally with BH209.Lee