johnny2

Is there anyway to determin how much powder one needs to have enough
energy to kill a deer with a muzzleloader? A friend of mind in PA,has a shop
(muzzleloader) and he said that they used to lay the bullet or round ball
in their hand and pour powder overit until it was covered and this was the
amount to use for a hunting load..Now I guess this was for a round ball...

I was wondering if anyone has tried this with a sobot and bullet or with a
cast lead bullet and as to how accurate it would really be as far as a load
for hunting with it....

txhunter58

Quick answer: Anything over 80 grains of black powder equivalent is MORE than enough to kill any deer. Don't buy into the 150 grain magnum hype. My elk load is 90 to 95 grains of 777. The only thing 150 grain does for you is make you flinch more and wastes money.

That said, If I could use a scope and sabots and longer shots were the norm, I might go up to 110 gr of loose powder.

The hard part is finding the most accurate load. Every gun is different and you might have to try several diffent powder and bullet combinations to find your guns pet load.

cayugad

Some of the old hunter's wisdom are strange at best. Now I have a book written by an old flintlock shooter that writes that 50 grains of powder and a roundball is a great deer load. His theory was put the ball in the deer and let it expand and release all its energy there. He was not worried about pass through.

So what is enough powder for a good hunting load... well that depends on the kind of shots you are going to encounter, the animal you are hunting, and what you want the bullet to accomplish. My rule of thumb is 70 grains of better of powder with a roundball, and I like 80 with a sabot. But then remember, I shoot very close range hunting shots.

I've never tried the hand/projectile/cover with powder. It might be interesting to do a few and see just how much powder you pour by volume...

frontier gander

A friend of mind in PA,has a shop
(muzzleloader) and he said that they used to lay the bullet or round ball
in their hand and pour powder overit until it was covered and this was the
amount to use for a hunting load..Now I guess this was for a round ball...

Thats what the old timers used to do to speed up reloading process. I dont think its a very accurate way, nor do i think it is safe.

Round ball powder charge can be as little as like posted above, 50gr for shorter distance, I like to start out at 80gr RS and work my way up. This year my mountain rifle will be packing 100gr RS and a patched round ball as my elk back up rifle.

HuntAway

According to modern ballistic experts, a .490 round ball loaded up with 120 gr of 3f Goex, shooting out of a 1:60 twist, 32 inch barrel only has 525 ft lbs energy at 100 yds is incapable of killing a deer.
But we all know that the claim of 1000 ft lbs to kill a deer is horse pucky.

Coincedentally the the same combination only with 80 gr of powder produces 419 ft lbs energy @ 100yds. So for a third less powder there is only a 1/5 loss in energy. But I guess, is still plenty to do a deer in.

Personally I prefer a Volume Powder Measure vice the palm of the hand method.

nchawkeye

Johnny...As mentioned, the short answer is 70-100grs in .45-.50 or .54 calibers is plenty...Remember the 45-70, seems I remember it was a pretty good buffalo killer...

Longer answer...I'm a bit of a hiistory buff, I read everything I can get my hands on about American History, especially the pre-1840 period...
I have never found in first hand accounts the method of covering the ball with powder...It is my belief that this method came about some time after what most of us consider the muzzleloading period to be over...We must remember, much of the day to day use of a muzzleloader was lost to history...Those guys used them every day so there was no need to write down the method, kinda like making fire with a flint and steel, those guys could do that before they were 10 years old...

I've read several articles on early hunting pouches with the fixed powder horns still attached, none of these had more than a 60gr measure on them...
Jim Bridgers rifel and hunting pouch have survived, his measure measures 50grs...Now is is possible that he used 2 full measures for deer, etc...

Lewis and Clark carried their powder in lead containers when they went on their expedition in 1803...The lead canisters weighed twice as much as the powder that was in them, suggesting they used about half the weight of their patched round balls...Using this method...A .490 ball weighs 177grs so the charge would be about 88 grs...A .530 ball weighs about 224 grs, so the charge would be 112 grs...

When I made my .54 I started with 120grs of FF powder, used this for several years...I ended up moving down to 100grs of FF and currently use 80grs of FFF...Back in the 70s, I shot a .45 with a round ball and used 75grs of FFF...All of these loads killed deer and shot flat...

falcon

iused to use 130-150 grains of Pyrodex RS or three 50 grain pellets when hunting deer and hogs: Found that such heavy loads are not needed, even for shots at 150 yards. My favorite small game load uses a 240 grainXTP and 70 grains of Pyrodex RS. Whilehunting rabbits and squirrels i have killed severalhogs with that load-bang flops all.

lemoyne

My Grandfather who taught me to shoot muzzle loaders 60 years ago and made all his own stuff including powder used a balance scale he said to use at least one half the weight of a ball that caliber and not more than 3/4 the weight of a ball that caliber and that the was what he used for all bullets in that caliber muzzle loader. He started with 1/2 the ball weight and when he got a tight group he quit if he got to 3/4 of the ball weight for that caliber he started over with a different bullet or patch or bigger ball. Lee