falcon

Bingo!!!
Works for me. Some of mine are pass throughs and some are not.Most of the 200 pound hogs thati have shoot in the shoulderare not pass throughs: This may be because I use lighter charges than most.Hit low behind the shoulder it passes through. It matters not because the pigdrops in its tracks.

gleason.chapman

Hunt4me, Great post on exactly what I am talking about. Thank you. Chap


Lee,
</softly spoken, no anger or frustration, not trying to push your buttons---seeking to inform new shooters>
This is what I am talking about. I have heard of a lots of hits like this, now it is shooter or bullet? I claim it is bullet.I am with Hunt4me, Noslers expand on meat not bone with large exit hole and blood trail and usually boom flop. I will give up pin point accuracy with excellent expansion, passthru and boom flop or great blood trails. I am guessing Lee that your taking shoulder shots, which is oK, if your butching your own deer. I have mine cut up for me at about $80/deer, so a whole shoulder blown apart is not a good thing. Who likes a 2 hour track job at night or finding a nice buck the next day stinking and ruined? Boom flop is so much nicer in the lung area, I am shooting Barnes MZ 300g with BH in my Omega, Nosler 300g in my Knight, I am shooting Barnes 300g Origonals for Elk in my Savage. Reason, terminal performance of the bullet. Even if this happens only 1% of the time, why would you risk it, when you can buy a bullet that will do thejob? Does not make sense to me.

"Accuracy is king,penetration is queen, expanion isprince and shoot thru is princess, all must be present in a bullet for adequate terminal performance."

To me the SST/SW are excellent in Accuracy, good in penetration, very poor in expansion and good in shoot thru. Terminal performance poor is my conclusion, therefore I don't shoot them.
<end soft spoken>

Best Wishes to you Lee,
Chap

gleason.chapman

</softly spoken not to provoke anger, but to enlist support and encouragement>
I think someone, who is a proponent of SW/SST has gotta do the testing at 70g, 80g, 90g, 100g, 110g, 120g, 130g, 140g and 150g into sand like FG has done with the PowerBelt. I honestly believe the bullet is too hard up front, I have seen evidence of this in pictures of cross setions of SSTs, they are thicker than XTPs, about like the XTP Mag, therefore they are going to have a difficult time opening up when shot real hard, and especially on between the rib hits behind the shoulder, they basically are punching right thru, killing the deer no doubt, but exiting by taking out anohter rib with little expansion. That is my theory, but I am not going to do the testing, because I don't believe the bullet is a good terminal performer--except for shoulder shooting. Please do the 200, 250 and 300g SW. Who will be the champion of that cause? Who will be the FG of the SW/SST? Lee, falcon?
</end softly spoken>
Best Wishes Falcon,
Chap

gleason.chapman

Do you always take shoulder shots on deer and hogs? If so why or why not?
Thanks Chap

lemoyne

I some how do not see what testing 70-80-90-or 100gr would prove for me since I start looking for loads that work with at lease 100gr of BH or 110 of 777. I have heard of people having these problem before and wondered about it. Is it possible that light loads do not open the bullet ? It sounds like Falcon uses lighter charges than myself and has good results, for a while I thought maybe they were not hitting them in the right place, now I am wondering if there is a mid range load that is non workable.
Chap what size load were you using? I personally have to hold the load I use on the 250's down to keep them from fraging unless I use the more expensive bullets, but I like to shoot them at 2200 fps to which is a little beyond what most people use. Lee

spaniel

SWs expand just fine. I've recovered them even way out around 200 yds when velocity is really down, and the bullet is expanded back to within 1/8 inch of the base.

If you double lung a deer behind the crease, as HUNT4ME describes, what will happen next is variable. The deer is dead on their feet but don't know it yet. If they don't know what happened or aren't scared, I have seen them jump, then just stand there and look around until they fall over. Or bolt a short distance, look around, and fall over. Or jog off, then fall over. If they freak at the shot, I have seen them take off at full speed for the next county -- just like HUNT4ME describes.

Think about this. If you double-lung through the ribs, the likely have no air anymore but can travel until their brain blacks out. Think of the recent Olympics. Do you think the 100m sprinters actually need to breathe much to run their race? No. Now mroe than double their speed and add a healthy dose of adrenaline and you get the idea on how far a deer can travel on a double lung hit with ANY bullet.

The problem isn't the bullet, it's placement (and I'm not saying anything is wrong with a double lung, I do them all the time). If you want the deer to be DRT, place any bullet higher and crack the shoulder blades to destroy its ability to run. Or, if you are really good, take out the heart. Either puts them down faster than a double lung. What kills deer from a lung shot is not bleeding out, but deprivation of oxygen. Any bullet that accomplishes that will be about equal to any other.

Another example is a 4-pt and 10-pt I shot from the same stand 3 years apart. Both were perfect arrows through the center of the heart standing virtually the same spot. The 4-pt was clueless, jumped 10 ft ahead, looked around, then turned to trot back the way he came. He made it about 20 yds and fell over. The 10 pt took off like a shot in the same direction, and I got very lucky to find him the next day 250 yds away. Both deer probably stayed on their feet about the same amount of time...it's what they did with that time that made the difference.

I could say similar things about blood trailing....all the bullets I've tried over the years and sometimes a lung shot will spray everywhere, sometimes nothing. I guess if the bullet does its job and the lungs deflate they really can't spray anymore, it's when they stay inflated and pressurize the chest that they leave a good trail.

Edited to add - if I find time at home I will take a picture of a SW taken from under the offside skin of a doe at 209 yds. Unless you think the bullet would expand LESS at the much higher impact velocity of the average 50-120 yd shot, this picture would remove all doubt on the ability of a SW to expand. I have 3-4 of them somewhere, and they all look about the same -- massively opened. I could compare side-by-side with an XTP I recovered, where only the front third expanded. If anything, SWs err to the side of too rapid expansion, I'd not use them on very tough game but whitetails are soft.

benamen

It may be possible that different runs of the same bullet have different properties. In my 270, I like shooting Sierra bullets because of the accuracy. Shot 130 grain with good results on deer. Decided to go with 150 grain as an all around round for moose and deer. As soon as I started using the 150s on deer, I saw all of my animals run. Took 3 mule deer and hit 1 moose 2 years ago all at fairly close range. 50 yard shot on a small buck and he ran a half a mile. Good thing it was all open country where I saw him. All three deer were double lung shot, all three sets of lungs looked like I pushed a pencil through their lungs. Hit the moose at 50 yards a little high just below the back bone as he was coming down a hill. Just made him shake for a second and a second shot from my son brought him down (180 gr WSM). Wasn't sure if I had a velocity problem or a bullet problem so purchased some SST 150s for the 270 to compare. Shot both Sierra and SSTs into pine logs (purchased some new powder and made loads up with both powders). All the Sierras entrance holes were noticeable only because of the mark the lead made at entrance. The SSTs started opening up immediately. Took the SSTs out and bagged one 8 point mulie at 300 yard and a whitetail 8 point at 75 yards. Both bang flops. When I talked to Sierra about the problem, they thought the bullets I had may be the problem and sent me 25 of a different batch to try late last year. Haven't given these new Sierras a test yet but will be doing so in the next month or so as rifle season opens up mid October. Like to do it sooner but my house needs residing and I wasn't ready to give up any fishig time to get the job done.

beast44k

I have shotplenty ofdeer, mostly with 250gr. XTP bullets, and have recoverednearly allof them.
I have seen heart shot deerrun over 200 yards, and left very little blood....yes, shot placement matters, but it doesn't mean a thing if you can't find that deer.

lemoyne

Shot placement matters a lot, there is a place 3 inches over the heart where there is a nerve center right next to where all the big arteries from the top of the heart divide that is the spot I usually hit and its where all the bang flops come from for me. This shot will also take out both lungs, its further forward on a boar than on a deer or elk, a bear is more like a boar as his is further forward to. Where you shoot them has a lot to do with how far they go almost irregardless of the bullet.

frontier gander

Send the bullets and i'll do the testing.

I tested some 275gr parker hydra cons at 100 yards and what they did, shocked me to the point where i will not use them!