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Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

Old 08-07-2008, 06:56 PM
  #11  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

ORIGINAL: gt2003

What are your usual shooting distances? Mine are pretty much 75 yards maximum. They have been a great bullet for me. I too have shot them through shoulders and they held together. I also like the fact that I don't have to shoot a magnum charge. I only shoot 80 grains of 777 and a 220 grain dead center with excellent results. Every deer I have shot with them has either fallen immediately or run at the most 30-40 yards. So, I'll keep shooting them. The price is well worth it to me since I know I can count on them for excellent performance on game. Now, if I shot a lot, like most of you, I would definitely look for a less expensive bullet to "plink" with. Here is a picture of a fewrecovered from deer. The bullet on the left was shotalmost straight down through a buck at about 15-20 feet and it held together even at such a close range. Search recent posts and you'll find a lot more threads on the bullet.
Whatis the weight of the bullet on the left? It was 220g starting out, that close a shot it doesn't look like it fragmented, but held together and wrapped around itself.
Chap
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:03 PM
  #12  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

With regard to extremly pancaked bullets (soft lead like the dead center), this is what Al Marion has to say about it with regard to "Terminal Sectional Density", that article is here:

http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/july03.htm

Since the bullet will shoot thru both shoulders without fragmenting, there does not appear to be a problem with weight retention. Weight retention is the key to getting adequate penetration.
Anyway, your asking for "thoughts", that is what I thought when I considered them.
Chap




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Old 08-07-2008, 07:24 PM
  #13  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

If you aren't shooting deer past 100 yards, there are alot of options for cheaper bullets that will work just as well as the DeadCenters...

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Old 08-07-2008, 07:42 PM
  #14  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

ORIGINAL: nchawkeye

If you aren't shooting deer past 100 yards, there are alot of options for cheaper bullets that will work just as well as the DeadCenters...
I agree whole heartedly.

I will say the the 340 DC's shoot well out of my Omega with 2 pellets T7 and a 209 Win Primer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/HuntAway/TARGETS/Zero50Cal2.bmp

This is a bullet recovered after having passed through a 5 gb bucket length wise full of packed dirt.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/HuntAway/TARGETS/Bullet2x6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/HuntAway/TARGETS/BeforeAfter.jpg

I can't remember the range at which this was shot but I did post it here or that other site that blew up some time ago. I got the idea from chapman.It would either be 30 or 100 yds?????

I have read that a lead bullet should not be fired pass 2000 fps (without copper jackets)as they will deform even in flight. Not sure where I read it but it is out on the net for what it's worth???

My last outing with them I got this;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/HuntAway/TARGETS/109-0945_IMG.jpg

I have no doubt that if they were used within their restrictions, that is sub 2000 fps they will be very effective and through shoot a shoulder on a deer especially at the 340 gr weight. Lighter weights????
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:05 PM
  #15  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets


ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman

ORIGINAL: gt2003

What are your usual shooting distances? Mine are pretty much 75 yards maximum. They have been a great bullet for me. I too have shot them through shoulders and they held together. I also like the fact that I don't have to shoot a magnum charge. I only shoot 80 grains of 777 and a 220 grain dead center with excellent results. Every deer I have shot with them has either fallen immediately or run at the most 30-40 yards. So, I'll keep shooting them. The price is well worth it to me since I know I can count on them for excellent performance on game. Now, if I shot a lot, like most of you, I would definitely look for a less expensive bullet to "plink" with. Here is a picture of a few recovered from deer. The bullet on the left was shot almost straight down through a buck at about 15-20 feet and it held together even at such a close range. Search recent posts and you'll find a lot more threads on the bullet.
What is the weight of the bullet on the left? It was 220g starting out, that close a shot it doesn't look like it fragmented, but held together and wrapped around itself.
Chap
Chap, I don't know the weight of the bullet. But, you are correct, at such a close range it pretty much wrapped around itself and did not appear to fragment at all.

I have also noticed with the dead centers that when they are shot at ranges of over 30 yards, they do not pancake as much as they appear to in the pictures. They actually maintain about 1/2 of their shank while the front 1/2 of the bullet kind of piles up on itself and spreads out to a certain extent versus pancaking out flat (like the bullet on the left). I would expect even better performance and likely deeper penetration when these bullets are shot at longer differences. Thoughts?
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:51 AM
  #16  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

ORIGINAL: gt2003

ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman

ORIGINAL: gt2003

What are your usual shooting distances? Mine are pretty much 75 yards maximum. They have been a great bullet for me. I too have shot them through shoulders and they held together. I also like the fact that I don't have to shoot a magnum charge. I only shoot 80 grains of 777 and a 220 grain dead center with excellent results. Every deer I have shot with them has either fallen immediately or run at the most 30-40 yards. So, I'll keep shooting them. The price is well worth it to me since I know I can count on them for excellent performance on game. Now, if I shot a lot, like most of you, I would definitely look for a less expensive bullet to "plink" with. Here is a picture of a fewrecovered from deer. The bullet on the left was shotalmost straight down through a buck at about 15-20 feet and it held together even at such a close range. Search recent posts and you'll find a lot more threads on the bullet.
Whatis the weight of the bullet on the left? It was 220g starting out, that close a shot it doesn't look like it fragmented, but held together and wrapped around itself.
Chap
Chap, I don't know the weight of the bullet. But, you are correct, at such a close range it pretty much wrapped around itself and did not appear to fragment at all.

I have also noticed with the dead centers that when they are shot at ranges of over 30 yards, they do not pancake as much as they appear to in the pictures. They actually maintain about 1/2 of their shank while the front 1/2 of the bullet kind of piles up on itself and spreads out to a certain extent versus pancaking out flat (like the bullet on the left). I would expect even better performance and likely deeper penetration when these bullets are shot at longer differences. Thoughts?
The soft lead expands on meat not bone, so that is good. The fact that they didn't fragment at 10-20 feet and folks say they shoot thru shoulders tells me that they will work from 0 to 175 no problem. If they are accurate in your gun, then go with them. I would not shoot them with 3 pellets or high charges. Spaniel testifies he got 30 deer with them, and he is still uses them, that is significant. If you can get a 2" group at 100 yards with them, man then go with them.

Here is how I rank bullets (I am letting my biases show here):

Strong Good non-fragmenting bullets
Barnes (all flavors)
Nosler Partitions
Gold Dots

OK bullet, if accurate in your gun
SW/SST 300g
DeadCenter
XTP (300g not 250s)
SST/SW in 200g
PB below 1200-1400 fps
Remington 45/70 bullets (fragment above 2000 fps, but excellent about 1800 fps)

Poor bullets
Powerbelts above 1500 fps(I didn't call your mom any names FG, I just called your bullet poor)
XTPs in 250g (fragment not every time, but some times, 250 won't shoot thru deer)
SW/SST 250g fragment sometimes, shoot thru like pencil with no blood trail, 250 yard recovery sometimes
any 240-250 all lead bullet (Knight, Cheap shot, yata) --pancakes out, therefore no shoot thru
hard cast bullets shoots thru with now expansion

I use this criteria to rank bullets:
1) accuracy (must be accurate, if you can't hit game over)
2) penetration and therefore weight retention (must be over 90% wt retention)
12" penetration to kill a human, therefore 12" at least to kill a deer, bigger game obviously require heavier bullets
3) expansion with shoot thru for blood trail, expansion to give HIGH volume wound channel

The Good top bullets do the first 3 things well. The OK bullets do most of the things well but have an issue here and there, but folks use them and have great results with them. I am not suggesting they change, cause they have adapted their shooting style to the bullets (i.e no oblique or frontal shots only sideways bow shots). The Poor bullets have issues that i would NOT trust them.

So these are my biases, but I reached them thru logic, reading and experience for most of these bullets I have read every review on MidwayUsa and Cabelas. For example MidwayUsa has over 30 reviews of the Remington 45.70 bullet, very good read. Most folks use them in the "guide gun" or 45/70 sidelocks, Sharps, etc. They are excellent at about 1800 fps. Push them with 3 pellets to 2000 or 2100 ya got issues of fragmentation. So basically reading. I like STRONG accurate bullets, they are doing the work. Like this recovered from a 6pt buck at 40 yards frontal shot, under hide in hind quarter, when thru the deer length wise. Long shank, perfect mushroom, nearly 100% weight retention, 300g Nosler Partition HP Protected Point, strong bullet. Sorry, your getting into my favorite topic and I am rambling.
Chap


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Old 08-08-2008, 06:19 AM
  #17  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

Looks like I got enough replies to fill a barrel...And I appreciate them all
it gives me a lot to consider about...I have ordered some of the TC bullets
to try as well...I want to get my rifle out this week end if possible...But you know
how it is when you have farming to do...The corn and beans are looking real
good this year..And the deer are helping themselves to it all....
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:33 AM
  #18  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

The debates are interesting but I still go back to the piles of dead deer and few bullets I was able to recover as most are complete pass-thrus. If a bullet punches all the way through a deer it is hard to argue that such a pancake-prone bullet should be avoided! As someone mentioned, past 50 yds or so they do not tend to pancake anyways.

"The corn and beans are looking real
good this year..And the deer are helping themselves to it all.... "

This is why I got so much experience with them, in the last decade the leasers have taken over southern michigan and all they want to shoot is bucks, and have locked up all the hunting land. So armies of does cost my extended family tens of thousands each year so for years I bought every antlerless tag I could legally obtain and filled them all in 1-2 weekends. I remember one helpless night whena neighbor called and asked if we could come "protect" 20 acres of soybeans he failed to get off before snowfall. Myself and 2 friends went out and covered the two approach routes where the deer streamed across when the sun descended. One buddy and I set up close together, me with 2 ML and him with one. We fired on the first group, dropping 2. They did not retreat far before stopping, and I dropped a 2nd. They fled as we reloaded, but by the time we reloaded another group was on top of us and we dropped 2 more within 50 yds. In half an hour we, as well as the 3rd guy, were out of tags and we watched helplessly as over 70 deer walked by us and munched on the soybeans.

The farmer tried to harvest 2 weeks later but gave up after 1 round-- the deer had eaten the whole field practically bare.

I moved out-of-state and am unable to help now, but now MI has limited each hunter to a max of three antlerless tags because it was "unfair" that people like me were buying all the tags. So now we're helpless to do much about it and last I was told the herd is continuing to increase to even more ridiculous levels.
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:38 PM
  #19  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

Well Spaniel, I guess you've had good luck with them too. I don't have 30 with them yet, but it won't be too long. I expect to add 3 more with the 220 grain bullet this year.

Just FYI, what grain do you shoot and what powder. I shoot the 220 grainwith 80 grains of 777.
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:32 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: Thoughts on the Dead Center Bullets

I shot the 195 DC in a Traditions Lightning LD with 100gr FFg 777. I got 2000fps on the nose, MOA but groups blew up even at 105gr so I stayed at 100.

That was the only gun I have ever sold, 30min+ to clean (full bolt disassembly, firing pin wore out in 2 yrs). I got my first Omega and it would not shoot any DC bullet at any reasonable (ie 90gr+) charge so I haven't shot them much in a few years...though I have taken a couple deer with my old sidelock as a backup gun shooting the 300gr Keith Nose HP.
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