Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

OK, grab a drink. This is going to be a long one.

First, you might want to refresh your memory of bronko's post titled 45 Cal GMB LRH Bullet Test.http://www.huntingnet.com//forum/tm.aspx?m=2920565

I shot the same bullets (same lot of lead, same sizing die, sortedby weight to within two grains of each other) out of my LRH barrel on Saturday, 50 yards - same as Bronko. Differences are that (1) I used loads of 70, 80, and 90grains of GOEX FFFg and Bronko used 70 grains of Pyro P, (2) I used my bees wax/Crisco/olive oil lube and Bronko used Dave's recipe of beeswax,castor oil, & murphy's oil soap, and (3) Bronko is a better shot.

Shot my first target with 80 grains GOEX and the 420 grain bullet (Lee 457-504 mold, sized to .451). The bullet felt good loading. Tight enough in the bore to require a little pressure to load, but not cutting lead on the rifling. Here's the target.



The funny thing about this target is that shots #4 & 5 are the ones in the black. What happened is this. The GM barrel has Williams fiber optic sights which don't suit me at all. When I was loading after shot #3 the fiber optic filament fell out of the rear sight in three pieces. It was real brittle. So I shot the last two shots without that green glow on the rear sights. I thought I had struck gold (I had not!). So I went to the truck and grabbed the .50 caliber pitted Renegade barrel, pulled the rear sight off, and put it on the GM barrel. I sure got a better sight picture with that TMC rear sight.

So I loaded up with 80 grains again and shot another group. Here's the target.





I TOLD YOU that I hadn't struck gold! Now it WAS hot, and I was sweating. But I felt I had a pretty good sight picture for those shots and good trigger control.

Need to try something different. So I loaded up with 80 grains again, but added a corn meal buffer (yellow meal / Pioneer brand ;)). I used an empty .45 ACP case full of corn meal, figuring it would give me about 3/8" of compressed meal under the bullet. Took five shots. Here's the target.



Well, at least that shows some promise. Maybe those three together are what the gun can do, and the other two are what I can do.

I wonder what a lighter powder charge will do. Gave 70 grains a try with the corn meal buffer. Also, up until now I've been wiping with both sides of one damp patch and both sides of one dry patch between shots. May as well try without wiping. Here's the target.





No great success with that. I wonder what jumping the load up to 90 grains will do. You can see from the target below that I quit after three shots. You don't need five shots to know a load is not working. I didn't use the cornmeal. Now I'm wondering what I would have gotten if I had.




By this time I'm pretty hot, sweaty and tired. But I wanted to try the 340 grain bullets that performed so poorly for Bronko. I loaded up with 80 grains and took five shotswithout checking the target between shots. When I walked down range to retrieve the target here's what I found.





[:@] Well, that's pretty much the same thing Bronko got with the 340's. That hole just above thebull might have been twoshots - but I doubt it. I think it was an unstable bullet that went through the target sideways just like the one Bronko got. The bullets were very loose loading and practically dropped down the bore, even though they went through the same sizing die as the 420 grainers.

So, next on the agenda is to cast some more 420's and 340's and try to load them unsized, and sized to .452 instead of .451. I'll do the casting in the next week or two, but the shooting is going to have to wait `til cooler weather.

OK Bronko, you got your report. ;)

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

Hey Semisane, you going for extra credit on your homework or what?

Thanks for the good report and the pictures of your efforts. You get an A+ on this assignment.

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

Yeah Murph, I can get a little long winded. But when I go out with a shooting plan I think it might be worth the time to post a full report. You can skip over the boring parts. I won't be offended. :D

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

It's interesting to see how the patterning moves across the target as you change loads. I think I would check to see if the barrel is showing any signs of being loose in the groove. GM's are usually pretty tight on patterning. I'd tighten everything down before I shot any more patterns. The sight falling apart....bad luck. My own best load is 60 Gr of 3F with a .440 ball unsized and a .010 linen patch in my .45. No wiping between shots and using a spit patch instead of lube.
Rock Lock

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

Semisane, I have never been able to use those , fiber optic sights and get a good group, a Williams peep a good solid old fashion front sight or a ghost type of my own making and two and a half inchesare possible.
Now there are some things that we some times use in combination that work and we don't know why or if its coincidence but if I had your circumstances to deal with I would try a greased wad over the corn meal because that's what has worked for me before, I my TC's I have to use a dry wad under the corn meal and a greased wad over the corn meal. Lee

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

Semi,

I didn't think it was boring and to tell you the truth, it wasn't that long, typing wise. The target pictures just make it look long. I too have a tendency to write long reports so I can't fault someone else for it. I just thought I would rib you a bit about it, it was all in fun and no disrespect was meant.

I have had similar results when I have tried wads under conicals, not much difference with and without. I still had to try it for myself just to see.

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

That 70 gn load looks like it could tighten up with a little more work... maybe try changing thebrand of cornmeal? (just kidding)

I shoot alot of cast maxis in my .45s with good results, for my bullet lube I use crisco, with just enough canning wax to stiffen it up.

Comes to about one block of wax per lb of crisco. Might be worth a try...

My Kentucky rifle seems to prefer 66 gns of 777 or Pyro P under a 250 gn maxi.

Nice report! Thanx for posting!
BP

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

Semi, have you slugged the bore of that rifle to see what the land to land actuallly is? Sounds like the .451s are simply too small. Check the barrel's crown as well and be sure to wipe extra lube off after loading. I think a hardness test on that lead might be in order.

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

Yeah, UC. The bore is definitely .451. And the lead is dead soft.

The funny thing is that bronko had the same experience with these bullets as I did - the 420's sized to .451 fit the bore well, but the 340's sized in the same sizer were loose in the bore. The only difference I can figure is that I sized the 340's in one step from the cast diameter of .457 to .451 with olive oil as a lube. I could not do that with the 420's. I had to size them to .452 first. Then they wouldn't go through the .451 sizer with the olive oil, so I switched to Lee's case sizing lubricant for that step. Now get this, whenI measure both bullets around the base driving band with dial calipers, I consistently get .451 on both. [:-] Anyway, sizing them to .452 might do the job. I'd sure like to get these things to shoot. Have lots of lead. Also need to try felt wads instead of cornmeal. Just didn't have any .45wads on hand.

RE: Oh geeze, not pleased, with Lees
 

All I can tell you is theyshoot very well in a good barrel. That Knight Elite barrelhas a 30" twist so it's possible the 1:28 needs a slightly longer bullet to stabilize?? I sure wouldn't think they would go berserk in a 1:28 though. How dothe noses on those bullets of yours look? The cornmeal should take care of any distortion you might otherwise encounter from the heat and I would think make an even better seal than would a wad.

Are you swabbing between shots?Sumpin aint rite. Got any Pyro P?