Shooting Conicals
 

I went out to try the NE460 conicals today in my KP1. I didn't have a wad and I couldn't get them to impact high enough. I think it was not getting a good seal. At 50 yards I was about 8 inches low with the sights maxed out. I only shot a couple of them after I figured this out.

I ordered some .510 .125" wads from TOTW but I think they are backordered and I am not sure how long it will be until I get them.

My question is will this help with my impact point by getting a better seal?

These are the first conicals I have attempted to shoot and I couldn't wait to get the wads in to try them.

I started at 70gr of 777 fffg and went up to 90 and it made a little difference but not enough.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

How did they group for you?

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

I didn't shoot enough times to see if they were grouping good. However they were all withinabout 2 inches left and right. I kept moving the sights up and upping the powder each time so it kept getting a little higher. The first two were almost touching even with the sight adjustment.

Could be the shooter though. I was using open sights but on a bench.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

Did those .503s load pretty easily in your KP1? I can load .504s in mine without much effort.Me and iron sights don't agree these days. I remove them and slap on a scope... so I can't offer you much help with the irons. I seriously doubt the wads will gain you much at all so far as elevation. You should probably be thinking about a new, higher rear sight (or a lower front). You might give Knight a call and see what they suggest.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

I agree with UC, doubt you can make up 8 inches with a wad. I say also lower front or higher rear sight.

Sometimes raising the charge actually lowers the POI. Weird, but true.

Until you get some new sights, you can still find the sweet spot with these bullets. For that, it doesn't really matter where they are hitting, only that they are grouping, so just fire 3 shots with each load before going to another one. That way, when you get some new wads/sights, you will already have your load, just have to adjust your sight.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

The first thing I would look at is whether the bullets are the correct diameter for your bore. How easy do they slide down? Can you shake it off the powder by holding the gun muzzle down and shaking it up and down hard? If so, you need to consider a slightly larger diameter bullet. Sometimes a difference of .001" is all it takes. NE does have at least a couple of sizes for their bullets. Getting the correctsize will help in sealing the bore and getting the best performance out of them.

At 70 grains 777 your velocity is probably about 1200 fps and at that speed the total drop from bore axis is around 3" at 50 yards. The difference your seeing is probably a combination of the point of exit in the barrel vibration (low point of vibration) and the sights (or sightingtechnique)you have. At 90 grains 777 my guns push that bullet between 1450 and 1500 fpswhich givesa total drop of about a 1/4" at 50 yards.

Are you seeing about a 2.75" difference in point of impact between those two loadings without adjusting the sights?

Either way you will probably want to look into the lower front sight (so the rear sight doesn't get too high, unless you need it higher) to help get the impact up where it needs to be. If you are using a 6 o'clock hold, that can cause the impact to be lower than a dead on hold. I personally like to use a peep sight when I'm not using a scope, it just seems to work better for me than regular iron sights.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

By my estimation, you need either a rear that is .100 to .125" higher (or a front that is that much lower). The sights are Williams Firesights and Williams ( 800-530-9028 ) might be able to sell you an inexpensive insert to go in that rear that would cure your problem. Give them a call if Knight doesn't fix you up.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

Why not switch to pyrodex? I remember posts on here long ago telling people to switch to pyrodex as it will make your POI higher due to the pressure difference.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I sent Knight an email to see what they would reccommend. The NE460 that I have are .503 and they do load very easy. I have only ever shot Sabots and I thought they would load easier from what I have read. I am not sure if they will fall off the powder if I shake it but I will try that. I was going to order some from the Bull shop but I went to Japan and when I got back and around to ordering them he was not accepting orders any more. I am trying to work up a load to go elk hunting the first of Oct so that leaves the Bull shop out.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

If you get a 3/8" black Iron pipe you can sharpen it and cut wool felt wads your self. I do it all the time and they help a bunch. Ron

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

Got a response from Knight today and they are sending a lower front sight out tomorrow for me to try. If that does not work they are going to have me ship the rifle back to them to check things out.

RE: Shooting Conicals
 

Can't beat their service, IMO.

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

Well I installed the lower front sight that Knight sent out to me. I received the wads from TOTW so I decided to go out and see how things came out. Below is the target of which I shot 8 times total.

The first shoot I just picked a stick out that was down range that was to the side of the target. As you can see that was a bad idea as all the rocks/sand shot through my target and put little holes in it.

Anyway I numbered the shots in the order I took them. I started the sight out at 3/4 high according to the set marks on the side of it. The first shot barely hit the bottom of the box at 50 yards. So I moved it to the upper most mark and took shots 2 and 3. They grouped very well so I decided to move the sight up pas the marks and lock it in place. I then took shots 4 and 5 and seen that I was getting closer. So I left everything the same and took shots 6 and 7.

This is a group at 50 yards open sights with the 460gr No Excuses with a .125" 0.510 dry wad and 90gr T7 fffg. I am going to send this information to Knight and see what they say.




Picture of where sight is at from last 4 shots.

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

Here is the Target picture

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

Wheatley

I am not sure that the .503 No Excuses are a tight enough fit in a Knight bore.

I have four conicals sitting here in front of me that I ran through my Knight DE. The two .503's (one a No-Excuse and one Bull Shop) the .503 Bull shop shows a deeper land mark than the .503 No excuse. Niether one of them are deep enough for me. I would think both of them might loose pressure.

The .504 Bull Shops fit really well.

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

Obviously not low enough. I would go for a higher rear insert.

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

Anyone have any bull shop 0.504 conicals I could try to see if that is the problem? I don't want to send my rifle to knight if I don't need to. Is there any other conicals that I can buy right now that would be a little larger in diameter?

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

I think it has been suggested to wrap conicals like No excuses with teflon tape to increase diameter and help seal them better. Haven't tried it, but it makes sense.

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

I don't think that is your problem anyway, Wheatley. I'll still suggest you contact Williams, maybe show them the above pics, and see what they recommend. Your fix will probably cost less than $10 total and that would beat sending the rifle back to Knight.





Three different bullet weights from my KP1 (using scope). These bullets varied in sizing from .503 (BS with GC) to .504. All shotatop 70 grains Swiss. Notice there isn't much vertical difference in impact point for any of those threebullets. I'm sure I was getting good seal with all of them.Different bullets aren't going to get you there (unless you go down to 300 grains or less).

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

Try a paper patched 500 S&W bullet. Mine shoot great! Ron

RE: Shooting Conicals "Update"
 

I may take the other front site that I have and have a guy machine it down for me. He used to have his own gunsmith shop and he still does some stuff on the side. I do have an extra scope laying around that I could try now since Nebraska changed their regs. to allow them. Thanks for the advise.