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200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
I finally got an opportunity to shoot at 200 yards. I didn't do very good to start out with. 200 laser yards, 67g of 4198 smokeless powder, Barnes Origonal 300g, Crushed Rib sabot, Winchester primer.
Here are my first 5 shots, note there is only 4 holes, so I missed the target on one shot.  |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Here is the next 5 shots. They all hit paper, two holes are touching right at the bottom.
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RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
I then figured out what I was doing wrong. I was not bring the front part of the Lead Sled up level with the target, I was pushing down on the rear of the stock and that was not good. Here are the next 5 shots, which are much better, 3" group at 200 yards. Will have to move it 5 click right, but it is pretty good for my first try at 200.
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RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Well I only had 3 charges left so I moved it in to 150 and tried it there. I was expecting to be 1" high, since I had a 3" high at 100 yard zero. Here is what I got.
My conclusion is, I can hit at 200, but I need a lot more paractice. Gun worked fine, shooter was the problem. Plenty of accuracy on the last 8 shots to take an elk out to 200. 150 is a better range for me right now. If I can shot all 200 yard shots inside the orange outer square then I would say I am ready for 200 yards with a muzzleloader. That is my self assessment. Chap  |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
If I can shoot all 200 yard shots inside the orange outer square then I would say I am ready for 200 yards with a muzzleloader. |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
WOW!! that's mind blowing to think of shooting a muzzleloader that far. There are those that can do it, but I have never tried it yet. When I do I want to shoot some conicals and watch the drop.. :D
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RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Good shooting. I second the comment on testing yourself under field conditions once you have the load, drop, and expected group size in ideal conditions established.
I highly, highly recommend investing in a good bipod, like a Harris swivel H model, for any shooting over 150 yds. The H goes up high enough that it can be used in a very low sitting position to get over grass, and can still shrink enough to be used in a "high" (ie up on elbows a bit) prone position when conditions allow it. I actually shoot better with the bipod prone than I do off a bench. The legs grip in dirt so I can push forward slightly to "load" the bipod, forcing the gun tightly into my shoulder and helping keep a perfect alignment and consistent cheek weld. I never shoot at game over 150 yds without setting up prone this way as it is most accurate for me. 3-for-3 bang-flops last year 209,108, and 339 can't be wrong. It also has the benefit of removing all chances for scope-to-forehead contact upon recoil, so if you have ANY flinching tendencies it can help alleviate it when the shot counts most. I have never shot a Savage but I understand many of the loads would recoil heavier than what I shoot in my Omega. |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: Semisane If I can shoot all 200 yard shots inside the orange outer square then I would say I am ready for 200 yards with a muzzleloader. Chap |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: cayugad WOW!! that's mind blowing to think of shooting a muzzleloader that far. There are those that can do it, but I have never tried it yet. When I do I want to shoot some conicals and watch the drop.. :D As for big conicals, I think they would shoot no problem to 150 with a 3" high a 100 yards. After 170 most of those type of bullets are dropping off the table and I think 200 is unreachable practically. 200 is reachable for me with the Savage because I have it sighted in 3" high at 100, I know my ballistics of the bullet and powder and I am getting about the drop I expected. I don't have any BDC reticule or anything like that, only the 3" over method, which I have always used with my 30-06 for years and years. Chap |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: spaniel Good shooting. I second the comment on testing yourself under field conditions once you have the load, drop, and expected group size in ideal conditions established. I highly, highly recommend investing in a good bipod, like a Harris swivel H model, for any shooting over 150 yds. The H goes up high enough that it can be used in a very low sitting position to get over grass, and can still shrink enough to be used in a "high" (ie up on elbows a bit) prone position when conditions allow it. I actually shoot better with the bipod prone than I do off a bench. The legs grip in dirt so I can push forward slightly to "load" the bipod, forcing the gun tightly into my shoulder and helping keep a perfect alignment and consistent cheek weld. I never shoot at game over 150 yds without setting up prone this way as it is most accurate for me. 3-for-3 bang-flops last year 209,108, and 339 can't be wrong. It also has the benefit of removing all chances for scope-to-forehead contact upon recoil, so if you have ANY flinching tendencies it can help alleviate it when the shot counts most. I have never shot a Savage but I understand many of the loads would recoil heavier than what I shoot in my Omega. I have a Limbsaver recoil pad on my Savage and that takes away the most of the recoil, and I shoot in a Lead Sled for practice. I couldn't take 20 shots without the lead sled. Last year I didn't have the lead sled, I could shoot 10 shot, after that I was so tender in my shoulder it was impossilble to shoot. I figured also that I was not getting good accuracy because I was fearing the squeezing of the trigger. After this hunting season I plan on going back to 5744, I don't need to shoot 200 yards back east here, only have 1 place that has a 150 yard shot and I can do that all day with just a standard load, signted in 3" high at 100. Thanks for your wisdom on shooting prone, I am not that flexable and it is hard for me to get in that position. Chap  |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Some of the White owners I am sure have shot that far. Redclub shot 200 yards with a Lyman Peep sight I believe it was... So it is possible. All you have to do is know the rifle and what the bullet will do. If my friend ever gets off his you know what and cuts his hay, I might be able to sneak over there and try.
The furtherst I shot was with my Black Diamond XR at a paper plate at 150 yards. After I learned the drop in the scope, I could hit the paper plate, which is not saying much, but the scope was only 4.5 powder and that paper plate looked mighty small at 150 yards. :D |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: cayugad Some of the White owners I am sure have shot that far. Redclub shot 200 yards with a Lyman Peep sight I believe it was... So it is possible. All you have to do is know the rifle and what the bullet will do. If my friend ever gets off his you know what and cuts his hay, I might be able to sneak over there and try. The furtherst I shot was with my Black Diamond XR at a paper plate at 150 yards. After I learned the drop in the scope, I could hit the paper plate, which is not saying much, but the scope was only 4.5 powder and that paper plate looked mighty small at 150 yards. :D |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
200 yards with open sights is very doable as long as you have the right size target dot and the right back ground color. For me a 3" orange dot on a brown or gray back ground is easy to see.
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RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Yep I can shoot 200 yards with a White U-M with a peep, I sight in at 3" high at 118 yards I am 6" low at 160 yards and 20" low at 200. 460 bullshop 115 grains of T7 with a wad, I need a large target 17" archery target with a duct tape cross on it I just center the front Fine bead on the Duct tape cross. I use a full size elk cutout also. This I just put the fine front sight just on the top of the elk. Of course I have to use a range finder. The farthest I have shot an elk with a ML is 177 yards. I do have my own range out the back door so I can practice a lot. Plus I have ol'man eye's ( I am a great grandpa). A very small peep with a small front sight eliminates the foggy sight picture.I would love to use a scope but CO. doesn't allow it and I hope they don't change (too hard to get a permit now). Somewhere I have pictures.
Redclub |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
wow! 20" drop @ 200? That thing drops like a buick off a cliff lol
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RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: frontier gander 200 yards with open sights is very doable as long as you have the right size target dot and the right back ground color. For me a 3" orange dot on a brown or gray back ground is easy to see. Chap |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
2's are a little tough for me with open sights. Especially if i have that big orange fiber optic as a front sight:D Chap i PMed you back with info on the stores to hit for powder when you fly in to denver. Watch out for those animals on the high way when you are on I-70 and then take the back roads to meeker. My father was a deputy up in meeker and always came close to nailing elk or deer lol.
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RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
That's a very interesting monopod, I like the fine adjustment with the trigger idea. Do you know if it locks, or do you have to try and hold the trigger on the monopod steady as you aim and fire? That's the only possible downside I can see.
Wow, 2350 fps with a 300gr bullet....that has to be some recoil! I shoot a 200gr bullet at 2100 fps. I would need to run the numbers but I would hazard a guess that your Savage generates more recoil than my 300WM shooting a 200gr bullet 3000 fps. I do envy your trajectory though, I've got quite a bit of drop dialed in when I'm shooting 400 yds on my range. I hope you have more eye relief than the Nikon Tactical on my 300WM! |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: spaniel That's a very interesting monopod, I like the fine adjustment with the trigger idea. Do you know if it locks, or do you have to try and hold the trigger on the monopod steady as you aim and fire? That's the only possible downside I can see. Wow, 2350 fps with a 300gr bullet....that has to be some recoil! I shoot a 200gr bullet at 2100 fps. I would need to run the numbers but I would hazard a guess that your Savage generates more recoil than my 300WM shooting a 200gr bullet 3000 fps. I do envy your trajectory though, I've got quite a bit of drop dialed in when I'm shooting 400 yds on my range. I hope you have more eye relief than the Nikon Tactical on my 300WM!  |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
You guys should try the Leupold Boone and Crocket reticle. This reticle works great on my Knight Long Range Hunter out to 200 yards. The reticle sub tensions are within 2 inches at 50 yard increments.
After ground hog season is over, I am going to see how close the sub tensions are for a heavy conical. I am sure I will be able to get 200 yards from them also. The problem is the Barnes MZ bullet shoots so well in mine out to 225 yards that I am going to have a hard time switching to conicals. I wish the MZ's were not so expensive. I guess I can fun shoot my other rifles and keep the KLRH for serious shooting and hunting only. Tom. |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: HEAD0001 You guys should try the Leupold Boone and Crocket reticle. This reticle works great on my Knight Long Range Hunter out to 200 yards. The reticle sub tensions are within 2 inches at 50 yard increments. After ground hog season is over, I am going to see how close the sub tensions are for a heavy conical. I am sure I will be able to get 200 yards from them also. The problem is the Barnes MZ bullet shoots so well in mine out to 225 yards that I am going to have a hard time switching to conicals. I wish the MZ's were not so expensive. I guess I can fun shoot my other rifles and keep the KLRH for serious shooting and hunting only. Tom. http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=A1473 I bought 3 packs. I plan on doing just what your doing, shoot XTP 300g (Mag or regular) and Gold Dots for target and Barnes MZ for hunting with my Omega--100g of Blackhorn 209,Federal Primer, supplied sabot is 1" group at 100, see below, made me a believer in BH real quick. I just did the ballistics on the 300g Barnes MZ and that will shoot MPBR of 175 yards, with a 3" high at 100 yards zero. More than enough for anything I will shoot at back east here. I think with Blackhorn and the energy it is putting out (look at LaneNebraska's MVs), the difference between a Savage smokeless and regular MLers is 25 to 35yards max, really not enough to warrent "going smokeless". Chap  |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Good shooting there Chap, 200 yards is tough but can be fun.
After I get my hunting load fine tuned, I spend most of my practice time shooting beyond 100 yards out to 200 yards in preparation for hunting season. More than a few times, when conditions were right, I have shot sub 3" groups at 200, it sure makes you feel good about your equipment when you can do that consistently. I like to fine tune my scopes windage at 150 to 200 yards because the error is easier to see at that range, just have to do it with no wind so it's accurate. Right now I'm planning on using my White UM with a peep and a 460 conical for elk this year. I will be practicing with it out to 200 yards since there are many places where I'm hunting this year that could offer a shot that far or further. I also shoot my GPH out to 200 yards with a peep, that's a lot of fun too. |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: dmurphy317 Good shooting there Chap, 200 yards is tough but can be fun. After I get my hunting load fine tuned, I spend most of my practice time shooting beyond 100 yards out to 200 yards in preparation for hunting season. More than a few times, when conditions were right, I have shot sub 3" groups at 200, it sure makes you feel good about your equipment when you can do that consistently. I like to fine tune my scopes windage at 150 to 200 yards because the error is easier to see at that range, just have to do it with no wind so it's accurate. Right now I'm planning on using my White UM with a peep and a 460 conical for elk this year. I will be practicing with it out to 200 yards since there are many places where I'm hunting this year that could offer a shot that far or further. I also shoot my GPH out to 200 yards with a peep, that's a lot of fun too. |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Chap - That load has quite a bit of OOOMPH in it (67 gr 4198). I shoot 51 gr of 4198 in my 45-70 using a 300 gr bullet. Glad to see you figured out what the 'problem' was. That's some good shooting at 200 yds - especially with a ML.
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RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: bronko22000 Chap - That load has quite a bit of OOOMPH in it (67 gr 4198). I shoot 51 gr of 4198 in my 45-70 using a 300 gr bullet. Glad to see you figured out what the 'problem' was. That's some good shooting at 200 yds - especially with a ML. |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Chap - I'm trying to figure out what you just said in your last post? Is that a different language??
 I read it 3 times and can't decipher it. |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
Bronko,
I had to read it twice but I think what he's saying is the load that he's shooting has a muzzle velocity (MV) thatgives a 200 yard max point blank range (MPBR) using a 300 grain Barnes Original bullet that has a ballistic coefficient (BC) of .291. At least thats what I got out of it. |
RE: 200 yard shooting with Savage smokeless
ORIGINAL: dmurphy317 Bronko, I had to read it twice but I think what he's saying is the load that he's shooting has a muzzle velocity (MV) thatgives a 200 yard max point blank range (MPBR) using a 300 grain Barnes Original bullet that has a ballistic coefficient (BC) of .291. At least thats what I got out of it. Bronko, Read it now, I spelled it out instead of all the acronyms. MPBR=Maximum Point Blank Range, MV is Muzzle Velocity, BC is Ballistic Coefficient. :-> Chap |
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