The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

Louisiana Department of Wildlife & FisheriesNews Release
L.D.W.F. ISSUES LIST OF APPROVED PRIMITIVE WEAPONS FOR 2008-09 PRIMITIVE HUNTING SEASON
In a response to the recent approval of Act 51, which partly consists of changing the language from a muzzleloader season to a primitive firearm season, the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (LDWF) has issued a list of approved primitive firearms for the 2008-09 Primitive Firearm Season.
All of the approved primitive weapons meet the criteria set forth by the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission as authorized primitive firearms. The criteria is a single shot, breech loading, metallic cartridge rifle with metallic cartridges loaded with either black powder or modern smokeless powder, .38 caliber or larger, of a kind or type manufactured prior to 1900 and replicas, and reproductions or reintroductions of that type rifle having an exposed hammer. The pre-1900 distinction applies only to the firearm and not the ammunition. All approved primitive firearms may be fitted with magnified scopes.
Approved single shot breech loading primitive weapons:
• Sharps rifles or replicas
• Remington Rollingblock rifles or replicas
• Ballard rifles
• Maynard rifles or carbines
• Burnside carbines
• Frank Wesson rifles
• Farrow rifles
• Remington Hepburn rifles
• M1873-1888 Springfield (Trapdoor) rifles and carbines and replicas
• Snider (British) rifles and replicas
• Wesson & Harrington 1871 rifles
• New England Firearms or Harrington & Richardson Handi rifles in caliber larger than .38
• Winchester M1885 Hi Wall or Lo Wall rifles or replicas (Also Browning B78 or 1885) .38 or larger
• Knight KP-1 in caliber .38 or larger
• CVA Optima Elite in caliber .38 or larger
• Traditions Pursuit break-open single shot in .38 caliber or larger
Non-approved single shot breech loading rifles:
• Ruger Number 1 and Number 3 (Reason: No exposed hammer)
• Thompson Center Contender or Encore Carbines (Reason: Designed after 1900)
• Mossberg SSi Single Shot Rifle (Reason: No exposed hammer and designed after 1900)
A primitive firearm license, formerly sold as a muzzleloader license, is required for the taking of deer during the primitive firearm season in addition to the required basic and big game hunting licenses. During the still hunt and with-or-without dogs segments of the (conventional firearms) deer season, the primitive firearm license is not required.
For more information on Louisiana hunting regulations, visit the LDWF Web site at www.wlf.louisiana.gov.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

did they have a reason for doing that. On my side of the Blue ridge in va, they added 2 weeks to early ML season. Start the state out at the same time.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

I doubt that I will ever hunt there but some of the wording sure makes me wonder if it was possibly copied incorrectly. Some of the rifles (NEF for instance) specify "larger than .38 caliber" and some (CVA Optima) specify ".38 caliber or larger". I can't imagine that they would allow a 38-55 in a CVA rifle but not in an NEF.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

To me it just shows how ignorant our law makers can really be. It is obvious that very little research could have been put into this.

I do like the looks of that early MZ hunt in VA. My friend has a camp on the Greenbrier river, which is only a few miles from the VA line. That sounds like a fun early hunt. Tom.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

Louisiana offersalligator hunting and has a public lakelottery too.
I read that in 2005, over 31,000 wild alligators were harvested duringtheir September hunting season.
They've got a bunch of alligator farms where they hatch wild eggs and then helpstock the gators back into the wild.
Isearched but Ican't seem to find any huntingregulations about it.
I hope that Katrina didn't ruin the alligator hunting.
I wonder what kind of guns hunters can use to shoot them with?
Those alligators grow into some big monsters weighingover 500 pounds and about aslong as a car.

About the new primitive Louisiana season. Some states have gone so conservative with their regulations about bullet length, using sabots, only open sightswithoutscopes, or no enclosed actions, that it'sno wonder thatother states respond by liberalizing their regulations.
Louisianawants to be a sportsman's paradise,and some folks want to hunt deerwith their civil war type guns ontheir own private land oronguided hunts. Just look at all of the waterfowlers thattravel to Louisiana and hunt the wintermigration.
Ishaving the new primitiveseasonas bad asliving in a state where the regulations are too conservative and so much is outlawed?

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

It almost sounds to me like all they did was extend the regular rifle season, just limiting to the type of weapon used. It is definately no longer a strictly muzzleloader season.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

Does this mean no muzzleloaders? It says metaliccartridge rifles. Lee

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

I'm failing to see MLs included in that list too...am I missing something? It would seem kind of stupid to exclude MLs from a "primitive" season.

These regulation makers are idiots. How are the Traditions Pursiut and CVA considered legal, but the T/C Contender is not because it was "designed after 1900"? Traditions and CVA designs are certainly post-1900.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

I think you guys are not reading the whole article. It talks about rifles made prior 1900 or replicas. Inlines were not made prior to 1900. They do talk about exposed hammer rifles. I personally like this primitive season because this would be a true primitive hunting season. I always thought I should be able tohunt my 1874 Sharps using BP cartridges. I don't necessarily think they should do away with the ML season per se. A primitive season should be in addition to the other seasons. But like most of us, I don't think I will ever hunt in La.

I think that the reference to the larger then .38 cal. was a typo.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

There are no typos in the article, unless they were made my the LDWF. The article was copied directly from the LDWF web site. Itannounces the type of breech loading guns that are allowedin addition to muzzle loaders during the new "primative weapons" season. Louisiana's rules are almost a direct copy of the rules Mississippi implemented two years ago. Sales of Handi Rifles went through the roof in Mississippi when they changed their laws. I suspect the same will happen in LA. Gonna be a lot of "slightly used" MLs on the market around here this fall.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

The "primitive" season should be just that. If it were up to me I wouldhave the primitive season only include muzzleloaders with percussion, flint, wheellock, and matchlock ignitions (and IMO percussion would be stretching it).
I have nothing against those of you who have and use in-lines. Adn if they are legal in your state, great. As long as its a ML. Scopes - I don't care for states allowing them. But a metallic cartridge loaded with black powder and calling it primitive - I don't think so.
There is no reason you could not use your 1874 Sharps or a .45-70 trapdoor or similar during regular rifle season. IMO the reason people won't is that they feel 'handicapped' and don't want to miss an opportunity to make that kill. To them, that is the most important thing.
I've taken plenty of game, both big and small that I really don't care if I get anything. Now I won't pass up an opportunity - if if I don't get a shot - so be it. I just enjoy being out there.
OK - time to get off my soapbox. Got that off my chest.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

Yes they where.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

I think most likely they are using this as another method to control overpopulation of deer in the state. Many of the eastern and southern states have overpopulation and the Fish and Game are using these kinds of methods to reduce it. Unfortunately out west where we still have overpopulation of Coyotes and Wolves (recently reintroduced) the game population is not a problem. The problem is getting drawn for something to hunt. This is my third year without any chance to hunt. Personally at 70 years of age I prefer to use a scope even though I limit my shots to 100 yards. I just cannot get a clear picture with iron sights anymore so the scope is almost a necessity for me. Arizona calls ours a muzzleloading season and everything that loads from the muzzle is legal except for more than one barrel and smokeless powder. Any sight you want is OK. When I can get drawn that at least allows me to hunt and make clean kills.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

I wasn't talking about inline exposed hammers. I was talking about the modern inline ML. Big difference. And while we are at it, inline exposed hammers were few and far between. If I am not mistaken, I don't think any were made in this country. I may be wrong.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

Exactly!

They did the same for Mississippi primitive. Went from muzzies and added the same breech loader stuff a couple of years ago. Just to help control the deer population.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

It would be hard to argue that a Sharps is not superior to a modern inline ML -- especially if you scope it. It you are remotely adept you can reload any single shot rifle in just a few seconds. Any muzzleloader, whether you use pellets, smokeless, etc takes far longer due to the need to ram the projectile. Indeed, the good ol' musket reloads faster than a modern inline.

Design date is a poor identifier for what is primitive. MLs were designed before compound bows, does that make them more primitive and reduce their killing range/power?

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

if you want to control the deer population, add more seasons and up the bag limit and you'll add more money to the state.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

I hear that didn't work so well for PA.........

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

Well its getting a bit off the subject but yeah - that's what happened in PA. The PGC won't admit they screwed up. But they slaughtered the deer herd in many parts of the state. In a few of my favorite haunts its tough to find a track let alone see a deer. But the PGC says the population is 'almost' where they want it. I assume that means eliminating the herd completely in some areas.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

"Inlines were not made prior to 1900." Not true, inlines have been around a very long time. If you were to say that almost all inlines and about 99% of sidelock muzzleloaders in use today were not made prior to 1900 - that would surelybe true.

The clubthose big shots in Mississippi belong to must have members in Louisiana.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

Where I hunt there are no special season for ML. I use mine because I like to use it and I do not feel disadvantaged when doing so. I sure do get some funny looks though. lol:DI usually stop and chat with them about it (my rifle) and accept the congrats for the deer on the back of my atv.

edit: I'm known in these parts as the grey hairded guy on the red atv with the black powder rifle.:D

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

To be honest, this doesn't suprise me...The early muzzleloading seasons were started in most states back in the '60s, usually by members of the NMLRA....Back thendeer herds were small and these guys just wanted a little time to themselves to try their hand at deer...

Look at today, most deer herds (certainly in the South) are booming, last year here in NC we had free, unlimited doe tags and yet we still killed more bucks than does...Guys, the law makers are catching heat from the insurance companies to reduce the herd side and frankly it isn't happening...

Most "muzzleloader hunters", now shoot inlines that are scoped and accurate to a good 150 yards...Some even say to 200 or better, and they want a "special time" to hunt with their "primitive weapon"...

Add in that hunter numbers are down in most states and this was going to happen sooner or later...

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

muzzle loaders/ archers cant do it all. Thats where the long range centerfire comes to play but the thing is, back east in some of those states like illinois, there is no such thing as rifle season. In that state, im surprised they dont make you register a bow and arrow.

I lived in Ill for 3 months with an ex girl friend and i was shocked when her uncle told me about the hunting. Is there even any public hunting land there or what?

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

That list is, for lack of a better term, interesting. I don't see the logic in some of the included and excluded guns in the list. If this is a change due to herd control I guess it makes sense. It may help get some folks interested in older guns that would not have gone that route before. Time will tell.

I have seen pictures of inline guns that date back as far as the 1700's including both flintlock and percussion designs. Not all of them had exposed hammers either, some were of a plunger design similar to several of the so called modern inline designs. While it is true that many of them were not mass produced that was probably due more to the cost and complexity compared to therelatively simplesidelock designs that pre-existed the inline systems. This, to my mind, still gives the inline ignition a lineage that quallifies it as a viable muzzleloader. The inline ignition does offer a slight advantage to ignition over a regular sidelock that has to snake the fire to the main charge. This advantage does not necessarily hold true for other designs such as the under hammer which often has a even shorter path to the main charge than many inlines.

From an accuracy stand point, all other things being equal, the inline has no inherent advantage over the other ignition systems. Most any design will shoot as good and more often better than the person holding the gun. Manypracticed shooters can make accurate shots out to 150+ yards without the aid of a scope no matter what design they are shooting. Many bison were shot at quite long range with muzzleloaders of several designs and no scope in the old days by hunters who spent the time to learn how to shoot at those ranges.

Now don't mistake what I'm typing as an endorsement of the average hunter going out and trying long range hunting. Many hunters don't put in the range time to develop the skills needed to be effective at ranges much over 100 yards but that doesn't mean the gun is not cappable of those shots when properly loaded and practiced with.

Here's me getting off the soapbox now.

RE: The Death of a Muzzle Loading Season
 

we are lossing hunters everyday and there are not many new hunters
i know people in indiana that would hunt if they could use a 3006 or 308 not to say they need to open rifle hunting up here to flat here
there trying to bring hunters in
even if there stupid