kirkll

Hey there guys....i haven't posted much on hunting net, i'm primarily an archery hunter and rookie bow builder. Ihang out on the Pirates of archery forum these days. mostly in the bowyers gallery...

But i pulled a really great muzzle loader elk tag this year, and i'm trying to take a crash course on getting my TC dialed in....i've been taught the basics of care and maintainance, loading, and have ran about a 100 round ball rounds through this thing at targets. but i'm trying to get more serious about my accuracy and what would be the best ammo to use for elk.

i've got a fewquestionsto ask if you guys don't mind helping a rookie out here....

first of all i'm trying to figure out what kind of riflings i have in the barrel before i choose which ammo to use. this is a Thonmpson Center side lock with the set trigger. the barrel measures from the muzzle to the cap nozzle 28.5 inches...there is no model number on it, just a serial number K53689

i was told by a retailer that the hawken model had a 1:48 barrel...i sure would like to confirm that somehow.


second thing i would like sugestions on would be type of ammo to use on elk. i'm in oregon and we cannot use sabots, buti can use anall lead bullet like the TC maxi-ball or Maxi Hunter....What would you folks recomend i use for maximum accuracy and killing power?....i picked up some 275 maxi hunter rounds the other day and haven't even tried them yet...i'm going to use Pyrodex RS for my loads....the 175 gr round ball will be fine for my deer hunting, but i thought a bit more lead would be nice for elk...

i've got a ton of other questions i could ask. but i need to get on the right track here first...

Any help would be appreciated......Thanks ....Kirk

MLKeith

First you did not say whether it is a .50cal or .54Cal. After that you can guess that it is the normal twist for that caliber but it is rather easy to use a ramrod that the end is pretty solid with a patch that will allow the rod to follow the rifling and just mark a spot on the ramrod with the rod bottomed out in the barrel and pull it up measuring a half turn and then double the length which will be your length of one full turn(one half turn in 24 inches would result in one full turn in 48 inches or 1 in 48 as an example). Most of the T/C Hawkens will shoot the Maxiball or Maxihunters with reasonable accuracy up to 100 yards. Personally I would use the heaviest I could shoot and try not to overpower them. You also did not say where the rifle came from. Did you buy it new, used etc? There are barrels that fit the rifle available from aftermarket sources so if you did not buy it new it might have an aftermarket barrel with any twist the original owner decided to put on it. Measuring it yourself it really the only way to be sure.

arcticap

I've been typingvery slow!

One way to determinethe twist rate is toattach a patch to a cleaningrod or ramrod that will be tight enough to fill and grabthe bore, or use a jag. Having a patch worm is a good idea. It attaches to the ramrod and has hooks on it which help to fish patches out from the bottom of the barrel in case a patchslips off. Butastuck patchcan always be shot out or blown outwith air.
You can put also putsome patch lube or BP solvent on the patch to to reduce the friction a little bit, but that's not necessary.

Push the patched roddown tothe bottom of the bore and place a piece of tape on the rod sticking straight out horizontally just above the bore,and note theexact direction that it's pointing.
Slowly pull the rod out of the barrel and notate the rotation of the tape.
When the tape on the rodrotates 1/2turn, then stop pulling out the rod and measure the number of inchesfrom the top of themuzzle to the tape on the rod. Multiply the number of inches by 2 to determine the twist rate.
If the rod makes 1/2 turn in 24 inches, then it's a 1 in 48 inch twist. If therod doesn'tmake 1/2 turn, then measurethe length ofthe rod after 1/4 turn of rod rotation and multiply by 4.
A 1 in 66 inch twist will rotate 1/2 turn in 33 inches, and 1/4 turn in 16.5 inches.
A 1 in 48 inch twist will rotate 1/4 turn in 12 inches.

Just make sure that the patch is tight enough to grab the rifling and measure the rotation of the rodas it gently pulledout of the barrel, since it's more likely to slip the rifling when the rod is being pushed in.

About the conicals, there's so many to choose from. Try to find one that shoots good in your riflle, and consider trying out a wool wad in between the bullet and powder to act as a gas check sincethey can sometimes improve accuracy.

These pages offer aselection of conicalsfrom Knight, Hornady & TC:



http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jsp?id=cat200005&navAction=jump&na vCount=1&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&parentType= category&parentId=cat20712

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=%4D%55%5A%5A%4C%45%4C%4F%41%44 %49%4E%47&dept2=%43%4F%4D%50%4F%4E%45%4E%54%53 &dept3=%42%55%4C%4C%45%54%53%20%4F%4E%4C%59&am p;dept4=%35%30%20%43%41%4C


Also, always be careful when you carry a rifle that's loaded with a conical bullet. If a conical is too loose in the barrel breech and you carry the rifle pointed downward when hunting, the bullet could slip forward and thencause barrel damage bybeing off the powderwhen it's fired. You want to try tokeep the muzzle of the rifle up when traveling and hunting to help keep it properly seated on top of the powder. Or else the barrel can get bulged and becomea "ringed" barrel.

lemoyne

Well lets see a Hawken with that ser# should be a 1-48 twist and a 175 gr ball would be a .490 RB with a reasonably close shot that 50 cal would take an elk but you would be marginal so you would need to use a fairly stout load and place your shot behind the shoulder broadside and get both lungs, I would recommend a 110 gr load if it woud shoot accurate, 110 of RS has been the most accurate load for myself my father and my son we also use a .495 ball with a ticking [heavy ] lubed with bore butter.A maxie ball would be a better choice if they prove accurate in your gun,so would a 350 gr Power belt or sabortooth with the hollow point pluged with solder a real bullet will also some times shoot accurate in that gun. Hope this helps. Lee

dmurphy317

For a 1 in 48 twist, which is most likely what you have, you should look at conicals up to around 400 grains (for a 50 cal) and a max length of around .750". This is not a hard rule but gives the approximate optimum for that twist. As is often seen, every gun has it's likes and dislikes and yours will have a personality all it's own. With that said, get some bullets and go to the range. You'll get to know your gun better and get better with your gun, like any relationship it only gets better the more quality time you put into it. And don't forget to be safe and have fun.

BTW, I believe the K in your serial number indicates the barrel was part of a kit. Did you build the rifle yourself or did you purchace it from someone?

Dave at Work

What would be the max length for a 54 Caliber Hawken with a 1 in 48" twist and a 28 inch barrel?

dmurphy317

For the 54 its around .9" at around 1500 fps.

Here is a link to the calculator I use to estimate those factors. http://www.uslink.net/~tom1/twistrate.htm?

As you can see each variable will affect the others so you can play with it to see what the possibilities are. Good luck

cayugad

Your T/C Hawkins was a kit gun. This is indicated by the K at the beginning of the serial number. Also the Hawkins is a 1-48 twist. That means it will shoot roundball and conicals.

Since you're hunting elk, I would go with a conical. Some of the conicals to try would be a maxiball, Great Plains Conicals (they come in a lot of different weights) in the 385 grain class, and another conical to look at would be a 348 or a 405 powerbelt. Maybe the Platinum type. Other bullets to look at would be some of the Bull Shop conicals in a 460 grain or 495 grain.

Also you don't have to push big conicals as hard as you might thing. 70-90 grains of powder produces some impressive down range energy. If you can work up a good accurate conical with that kind of powder you should be in business out to 100 yards.

Another thing you might want to keep in mind is wads. If the conical has a flat base, like the maxiball and the bull shop.. often times a felt wad can help with accuracy...

kirkll

Hey guys! Thanks for the response....This is a .50 cal model and i did buy it second hand.


Looks to me like i just need to play with this thing a bit as far as ammo and powder goes...the idea of having a good sized bullet that shoots accurately out to a 100 yards would be nice...fortunately i have a range right here at my place i can shoot out to 80 yards safely into a dirt bank behind my archery targets.

my season opens on August 1st and goes 6 weeks for a cow or calf elk... so i have plenty of time to get dialed in. my off hand shooting skills are pretty fair, but i really need to bench this thing until i've got her dialed in. i love the weight of these muzzle loaders. rock solid on target off hand...

i would prefer a peep sight to these buck horn rear sights on it...the rear sight on this barrel seems to be dovetailed into the barrel much like the front sight pin..i've seen after market peeps with screw mounts. do they makea rear peepthat dovetails into the barrel?......i put a fiber optic front pin on it, then found out i can't use one on this hunt....where can i get some different sights for this this rifle that will fit the barrel without drilling and tapping for the rear sight? also....it look as if i need to put a different front pin on it again...the original pin was trashed....

i picked this rifle up pretty cheap. only spent $160 on it. but it saw some action and has its share of dings...one of them being a bent front sight pin...

question: is the use of a wool wad with the conicals something that really helps in accuracy? also....the TCmaxi- hunter is recomended for deer, andthe maxi-ball for larger game for penitration....considering i get complete pass throughs using a compound bow with good shot placement, do you think it wise to go with the TC recomendation, or soder fill the hunters? the idea of that bullet opening up inside that rib cage sounds pretty good to me.....Kirk

kirkll

heres a photo