English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Last year I bought my first Flintlock and first ever Blackpowder rifle. I purchased a Lyman Deerstalker and had some ignition issues and spark issues with the flint and frizzen. Although I did eventually get the darn thing to fire, I was pretty darn aggravated. I had tried an old timer trick that my uncle recommended to me. I wrapped the flint in a peice of lead stripI made from a round ball. After that, the rifle started firing pretty flawlessly. Afterabout 50 rounds through the barrel the rifle started to shoot great. But once again my Flint went downhill. I gues this is to be expected with the flintlock but mando i love to shoot this thing.

My Questions are: 1) Should I try English Flints on the rifle or A German Agate Flint since I need to
replace the original that came with the rifle?

2) Would anyone recommend that I put an RMC touch hole liner on the barrel for
better ignition?

I have to tell everyone here that over my years of hunting and just plain shooting, I was really missing something. Shooting the flintlock has made me a much better shooter and I love it. I would just like to improve my igition problem.

I used Hogden Triple 7 FFF powder and GOEX FFFF in the flashpan. THis seemed to work best. I tried patched roundballs but eventually went to Hornady PA Conicals which resulted in 2 1/2 inch groups off hand at 50 yards. Ithought this was good enough since i never shot one before. I just need all the pointers I can get right now.

Thanks,
Justin

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Ditch the T7, only real black powder should be used in the bore.

i like the 3/4" Tom Fuller black english flints the best. German agate is good too but i just prefer the TF flint because they have sharp edges and you can knapp them a lot easier.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

I shoot a TC Flintlock, but everybody I know only shoots real black powder in the FL. 777 is much harder to ignite, hence the hot 209 shotshell primer. I think that is your problem on iginition. I have read that some folks shoot duplex loads of 10g of Goex in the bottom and then 70, 80 or90g of 777 and that works. As for the RMC touchhole, I think they are better because they are easier to get out (allen wrench instead of a screw driver which can strip) and a bit bigger hole. This site has a lot of good info on FL shooting:

http://www.americanlongrifles.com/

http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/tuning.htm

I also got a copy of this book:

The Complete Rehabilitation of the Flintlock Rifle
on ebay for like $5. Great book.

Best Wishes,
Chap Gleason

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Answer to question #1 - Yes. Answer to question #2 - Yes.

I'm surprised you're getting reliable ignition with T7. But, if it works for you (i.e. goes off every time with no ignition delay) then go for it. I've used only GOEX in my Great Plains - FFFg in the bore and the pan. I alsohave an RMCvent liner, andhave yet to have a misfire. I've had the pan fail to flash a few times, but if the pan flashes the gun goes boom. My longest flint life with Fuller black English flints is a little over 80 shots. Average is something between 40 and60.Might have to try T7 just for grins.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Justin ... in my Lyman Trade Rifle I use a RMC touch hole liner and it really helped in the ignition and lock time. I would strongly recommend getting one with the Allen head style...

The Black English Flints work great. But some will give you twenty shots, others might give you 50 or more. The German Agates also work real good but can not be knapped. My Lyman came with an agate and I must have got over 50 shots off that before it went bad. I wish I had counted, because I shot three sessions and normally shoot 20 rounds a session... before that agate went bad. I also tried the French Amber flints. While they worked real good, I did not find the extra expense of them worth the money. The Thomas Fuller Black English Flints work fine for me.

For the best ignition use pure black powder. Actually you can shoot 3f in the main charge and the pan. If you do want to stick with the Triple Se7en powder, try a duplex load. Drop about 10 grains of black powder down the barrel first, tap the rifle on your toe to level the load (and fill the touch hole) and then put in your Triple Se7en. You will see a much faster and more positive ignition with the rifle..

It sounds like you have the rifle and the accuracy down well. Now it is a matter of trial and error of different things. Good luck and I don't have to even guess how much fun you are having. Flintlocks are a lot of fun.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Hey thanks guys! I really appreciate the feedback. I will take the T7 thing under advisement. I will say this was the only thing available last year around the time i bought the rifle. I tried five or six different places to find either Swiss or GOEX powder for the bore. I will say that even my father in law who hunts uses the T7 and he has never said anything about ignition problems. But hey, if they have the real stuff i will make sure I check it out.

FG have you or Semisane ever tried the T7? Did you have the same problem using this powder?

As far as the flints, when I get home I will make sure I take a trip to Dixon's ML Shop and pick up as many flints as i can.

Hey once again, thank you very much.

Chap, I will Definitely check the resources you left for me. Thanks!

Justin

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

yes, i have tried t7 in a flinter and it was horrible, especially with patched round balls. if you can get goex, use that in your barrel. I suggest 3f as the fouling is a lot easier to push through.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

I found 777 hard to ignite in a .54 percusion Renegade with #11 mags and no better than real FFG at cleanup time.I'd save it for the inlines..............Harold

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Someone on THRrecently finished their Lyman GPR kit and this was posted about how to solveits poor ignition problem:

This wasin response:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=367339&highlight=kit%2A

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Thanks for the post, great info for any FL really. Chap Gleason

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

It's been said repeatedly in this thread, but shoot real black powder out of the flinter. My t/c renegade hadpoor ignition with pyro rs and, looking back the igntion was delayedwhen it did go off. I switched to ffg goex and the reliability increased and the lock time was quicker. Both of these, particularly the better lock time, contributed to better accuracy.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

I have been hearing shooters argue about flints for over 30 years. I hunt in PA where the flintlock is the law. So there are a lot of guys around here with a lot of experience. Both flints are good flints. You need to keep your flint good and clean, and most importantly you need to keep it lined up properly. Also take good care of your frizzen.

You have been given good advice here. I use 3F Blackpowder in my rifle-exclusively. I would not use T7 in a flinter. I also use 7F BP in the pan. IMO the 7F is faster and easier to ignite.

A new flashole may be better as Cayugad advised. I do not have any experience with custom flasholes. I have never had any problems with the original flasholes. Most shooters that I witnessed having problems with the flashole were putting too much powder in the pan. I fill my pan up about 1/2. Tom.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

HEAD001,

The first time I went to the range with the rifle, it was a step bastards child to get itto go boom.[:@] I did however under my father in laws advice only fill the pan up half way. The night before we fired it, we threw some powder down the barrel and charrged the pan just a little to make sure it was igniting. No issues. I cleaned out the barrel with a little butches and swabbed it dry x's three.[:-] Now, the first can of powder that was pushed on me by the moron at the gun store was Pioneer. I questioned him about this, only because I know it is used exclusively in inlines. He said I would be fine. He was dead wrong and the store refunded me the money even after it was open. My father in law gave me the T7 and after that the gun went clickityboom! This was the most exciting thing that has ever happened to me in 33 years in the outdoors world.:D

Now that the gun was firing, I decided to hit the range for an all day affair. What a joy. But I still would get misfires after the 4th shot. I cleaned the pan,picked the hole, loaded her up and it would go off three or four more times. After about 30 shots the flint wasdone. The edge had cracked and the flint split in the middle leaving a large gap. I took the flint spun her around and got 10 more shots of which only 7 went off. I was worried cause i still had a load in the barrel. So I took a twig and set it behind the flint and gotthe gun to shoot one more time.Well, I went home and dug through the box and actually to my amazment there was a replacement flint. I only got 24 shots out of that puppy. At least I had my shooting down. This was important to me. But now I wanted to get some more flints. Well to make a long story short Uncle Sam called me up and I haven't gotten to shootsince.

I did purchase ten newTom Fuller English flints from Track the Wolf today. I just have to purchase some GOEX and fffg and get the heck home. Then the fun begins. I will need to shoot it again to get used to the flash. Won't take long. After the first ten shots i just learned to relax and ware Shades LOL! this helped alot. My accuracy was good enough to get one in the kill zone. I am hoping and praying to be home by Flintlock Season. THis would be great. My favorite time to track down a whitetail and send one down range. I like when there is funny white stuff covering the ground. It makes the deer jump out at you.

And finally, I would like to thank everyone's feedback. Your feedback I am sure will make my FL 'ing alot more enjoyable. Thanks! And I do have the RMC touch hole liner coming in the mail as well. I can't wait.

Thanks,
Justin

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Justin:
Congrats on the flintlock purchase! I bought my first one about 3 years ago and have only added more to the collection ever since.

I had the same experience you did when first shooting the flintlock, and it was very aggravating. Those guns are only meant to shoot real BP, so forget about any of the substitutes.

Blackpowder is not available in many places. Not illegal, just not available. It can be purchased over the Internet from powder inc. I believe the URL is: www.powderinc.com

You will need to fax them a copy of your drivers license. There is a hefty hazmat shipping fee, but it is one way to get the real stuff. Powderinc is a good company to work with, I have always had good service from them.
You may also want to check out gun shows. Once a year we have the National Muzzleload Rifle Association (NMLRA) meet here in Arizona. They sell the real stuff during that event. They may meet near you and you can stock up on the stuff.

You probably know this allready, but no 4F as your main charge, in the pan only. 4F builds pressure too quickly for the barrel.

A cleaning solution you may want to try is something I learned from this forum. It is equal parts isopropyl alcohol and windshield washer fluid. It is very cheap to make and works great. It also evaporates very fast so clean up is easy.

What I do is use a small leak proof jar, put some patches in it and add enough iso/washer fluid to just saturate the patches. Then add a little more of the fluid to account for evaporation. I bring this to the range, it is great for cleaning up the pan and flash hole while at the range.
You may also want to wipe down the frizzen and flint. Keeping the carbon down on those will help your ignition.

A little knapping while at the range will also help keep your flints sharp and firing.

Two other things:
If you fire the flintlock at night, close your eyes. The flash is blinding. It will not blind you, just scare the hell out of you!
Also, a flintlock can fire upside down. If you decide to try that one day, like I did, be sure to wear something with thick longsleeves. Otherwise you will badly burn your arm-yes I did this:)

Again welcome to the club. Hopefully you are getting the same curious looks I get while at the range.
~Robert

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

"Close your eyes". You must be kidding me. The ablity to shot a flintlock is follow through. Definitely do not close your eyes. How about wearing "Safety Glasses". Or would that be too easy??

I realize he said when shooting at night. But stilll?? Tom.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

RMC touch hole liner, is excellent, I recommend using a good breach plug grease and taking it out and cleaning threads along with everything else. Your problem with PRBall is probably due to using 777, it causes several problems in a flinter. You will get the best results by using regular black powder, I personally use floured blasting powder for prime and Swiss or GOEX. If you try black in the bore I suggest you try a good tight PRBall again normally they wont work with 777 and they work quite well with black.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

Exactly, when shooting at night.

Obviously you need your eyes open when firing a flintlock-or any other firearm for that matter. But that comment was specifically for firing at night and it was a warning/suggestion not to do it. As a beginner the blinding lightfrom the flash can be frightening if you are not prepared for it.

RE: English Flints Vs. German Agate Flints
 

I just wanted to follow up the previous post about the success ofdrilling out the vent. This is a big improvement from only having successfulignition 3 out of 10 times before doing any drilling to open it up.

Newly posted:



Previously posted:

Is the RMC flash hole larger than what Lyman provides? I went to RMC web site and the flash hole for the Deerstalker has the same slot to remove it. It does not come with a Hex hole.

Ed, At RMC Sports ML083 is the search number for the Allen Head vent hole liner for a Lyman Rifle. I think your Deerstalker is a Lyman. Hope that helps.

Justin,

I don't mean to be redundant with advice, just thought I'd share my personal experiences with T7 in a flintlock and my thoughts on "agate" flints.

1. I tried T7 once (and only once) in my .54 Renegade with GM barrel. 4 out of 5 shots I fired "hang-fired" (delayed ignition) on me and that was with a new flint and wiping the flint, pan, and frizzen clean after each shot so I know it was not a lock issue.

2. I've tried agate flints and had a few that worked OK, but I wouldn't waste my money on them. TOW and others have good Tom Fuller English flints available and I also like Rich Pierce's hand knapped white Missouri flints. Besides, a lot of what's being sold as agate isn't actually agate, it's quartz. I know quartz when I see it, my Mom and Grandma were "rockhounds" and I spent many a day as a kid traipsing up and down streambeds and old gravel pits looking at different types of mineral stones and such.

3. Bottom line...REAL black powder and patched round balls or soft lead conicals for flintlocks. And yes, an RMC vent liner is always good insurance. Life will be good from thereon!

Good luck with your flinter and keep your powder dry!

BPS

Dave yep it's a Lyman, but I don't think it has the Allen Head Vent hole. But I think I'll order it anyway if it will improve ignition.

ML083 - M6 x .75 thread for Lyman NOTE Lyman liners are slotted and do not have the allen wrench.


Thanks...Ed