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"Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Any of you guys have any experience with this brand bullet? I was kicking around Gander Mt. yesterday not really intending to buy anything..........$105 later, LOL.:D
http://www.harvesterbullets.com/sabertooth.htm Anyway, The 300gr designcaught my eye as a possible contended for replacing my usual 295gr Powerbelt hollowpoints that my T/C "Pa Hunter" flintlock likes so much. They're within 5grs total weight of them, similar style gas check (although not locked on like a Powebelt, more like a short sabot over the belt of the bullet. They look like a nasty bullet and by design seem like they should be great for the more modest velocities that my flinter puts out with a 100gr charge. And if all goes well and they aren't copper plated turds........they're $9.99 a pack for 15. Almost 1/2 the price of regular Powerbelts at $18.99 for 15 of the 295gr Hollowpoints. I'll drag the camera (and maybe the chronograph) along and document the range session. Hopefully it isn't a case of you get what you pay for, but for $10 a pack I had to grab 2 just for giggles and some range time. (At worst I can load them as "finishers" in a couple loose speedloaders) |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Be very very careful with these. I used them one year and they shot Ok. 2" at 100 yards. I was shooting them with i believe 120g RS and on my first day of hunting, i had jumped over a couple smalls creeks and in doing so, the bullet fell right out of the cup and onto the trail without my knowledge. I found out the hard way when i pulled the trigger, 20 minutes into the hunt and then to insult me even more, i found the actual bullet on the trail later that day. These do not have the snap on bases like the powerbelts, The sabertooths require that you have a GOOD snug fit in the bore as the pedals on the plastic cup are what hold to the base of the bullet. I think if you were to use them, it would be wise to some a few drops of super glue into the cup and then put the bullet in. I liked them to at first, But with all the hiking and rough trails i run, i can not depend on the cup nor the superglue to hold the bullet in place.
After that first shot that day, there was no recoil at all, just a ton of smoke and a big mulie haulin ass through the forest. I loaded up a 295g powerbelt right after and put it to use 3 days later on a mulie at 148 yards. |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
That was my exact initial concern after taking one out of the package. The cup will literally just fall right off some of them.
I took each of them off and bent the "petals" inward a bit and reseated the bullets and they stay in place much better but I will certainly see what sort of bore fit they have and thanks for the heads up. It would kind of suck to have the ol' cartoon bullet roll out the barrel when you really need it huh? :eek::D I also thought about the dab of superglue as well but wondered about the gas check staying attached a little too long or maybe not dropping off.......probably would I guess but no real way to know without shooting some sort of medium like gel or sand or something. I think if the bullet stays seated OK I might be in the chips but I'll keep a close eye on them. Maybe even TRY to make one come out by turning the gun over and trying to shake it loose (Re seating of course before firing to make sure it's not 1/2 way down or anywhere in between) Accuracy wise they realistically only have to be good to about 75 yards tops for the majority of my hunting with the flintlock here in PA. Probably the longest I've taken is somewhere around 60. I hope someone has some experience on game........curiousto hearhow they did. |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA That was my exact initial concern after taking one out of the package. The cup will literally just fall right off some of them. I took each of them off and bent the "petals" inward a bit and reseated the bullets and they stay in place much better but I will certainly see what sort of bore fit they have and thanks for the heads up. It would kind of suck to have the ol' cartoon bullet roll out the barrel when you really need it huh? :eek::D I also thought about the dab of superglue as well but wondered about the gas check staying attached a little too long or maybe not dropping off.......probably would I guess but no real way to know without shooting some sort of medium like gel or sand or something. I think if the bullet stays seated OK I might be in the chips but I'll keep a close eye on them. Maybe even TRY to make one come out by turning the gun over and trying to shake it loose (Re seating of course before firing to make sure it's not 1/2 way down or anywhere in between) Accuracy wise they realistically only have to be good to about 75 yards tops for the majority of my hunting with the flintlock here in PA. Probably the longest I've taken is somewhere around 60. I hope someone has some experience on game........curiousto hearhow they did. Chap Gleason  |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
I shot them in a number of different rifles. I have yet to see one fall off the sabot. Next time I shoot them I will REALLY TRY to shake one off the sabot. In my Knight rifles they are very accurate. I shoot them with 90 grains of 3f powder. They did very well I thought. Also my impressions of them and the way they reacted downrange was they would have made an excellent hunting load.
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RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Whatmakeof rifle was it that these fell out of?
It sounds like either the bore was loose or it was a defective sabot. Since the sabot didn't fall out of the barrel, maybe it was just a bad batch of sabots with loose interior cavitytolerances or some other similar defect. That doesn't necessarily mean that all of them willbe defective though. |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Winchester X-150 with a .501" bore. The sabots fit fine, they just dont offer enough grip on the bullet to hold it in place.
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RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Well I'm back........I didn't get everything done that I wanted to accomplish at the range because my sportsmen's club was hosting a school picnic. There were teachers and students running around down by the clubhouse and even though I was a good 100 yards off to the side of them I kinda felt bad shooting my inline first. [:-];):D
I think I saw 15 people rise up out of their shoes when I touched that first round off. LOL I'll save the sabertooth testing for a later date but I did find a nice new load for my CVA Magbolt 150: 120grs loose FFg T7 and 300gr T/C Shockwave bullets with those new Easy load sabots they have (The 2 petal yellow ones) POI was 6" high and 2" left of where 110grs and a 250gr Knight Powerbelt was hitting originally. 2 shots later and a serious overcook on the scope adjustment brought her right into the center. Last 2 shots were 1/2" high figure 8 right down the middle at 100 yards. At 50 yards it's printing 1" high. Been a while since I actually shot this gun and I forgot how much whoop these things dish out with that much T7. Yeehaw. :D Any of you ballistically gifted individuals have any idea how she'll do as far as POI goes at 150 and 200 yards? I'm hunting PA and realistically even in our regular rifle season a 100 yard shot is a LONG shot in heavy woods but I was curious what the holdover would be at 150 and 200 (ya know....just in case.;)) With 120grs FFg T7 and a 300gr Shockwave it's gotta be doing somewhere in the mid 1800fps range off the top of my head right? Anyway, I think I have whiplash and a mild headache so I'm gonna chill with a cold beverage and I'll save the Sabertooth testing for maybe Monday.:) Thanks for the feedback guys. |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
I have shot the Sabor Tooth for years off and on, I think it is the best non sabot bullet made, I had one come apart like he said but with me it was the Power Belt that dropped the bullet out, I slipped in the mud and rapped the barrel into a tree root and seen the bullet setting on the tree root when I got up off my knees.
Conical bullets are more prone to this problem than saboted bullets are, thats one of the reasons that most of us chose to use sabots when we can. Of couse theres people makeing laws that are completely ignorant of our problems and usually could care less so we end up using them in some states. Lee |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA Any of you ballistically gifted individuals have any idea how she'll do as far as POI goes at 150 and 200 yards? I'm hunting PA and realistically even in our regular rifle season a 100 yard shot is a LONG shot in heavy woods but I was curious what the holdover would be at 150 and 200 (ya know....just in case.;)) http://sav10ml.com/pages/load_data/traj_basic_dat.html with a 150 yard zero. Here is what you get: WWW.SAV10ML.COM So your 3.4" high at 75 yards, the highest point of the arch. Your dead on at 150. 3.5" low at 175 and 8.3" low at 200. The bullet does not have that good a BC, but it is certainly adequate for a ML. Just sight it in 3" high at 75 yards and you should be good out to 150 with your open sights. Chap Gleason  |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Chap, If im not mistaken, thats the bullet under the hide right in front of the shoulder, am i correct? I know it was a 30 yard shot and i cant see any exit hole. I am curious.
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RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Chap, While I very much appreciate all the hard work on that ballistic table I think I may have confused the bullet I was looking for a bit. I should have started another thread I guess, I apologize........you gave me the ballistics ofthe 300gr "Sabertooth" from my open sighted flintlock with 100grs of T7 (I actually use regular Goex black FFg)
But anyway I sight in dead on at 50 yards with that gun and will probably never have any desire to shoot it over 75 yards in my life. The bullet I was hoping to hear about was the one I was messing with yesterday9When I should have been shooting the Harvester I guess) ........300gr T/C Shockwave from my CVA Magbolt 150. I am shooting 120grs of T7, with a 1/2" high POI at 100 yards. At 50 yards it was just about 1" high. This is the one I would like to know the ballistics for because it's coming from a scoped inline and I MIGHT see a long shot at some point. I settled on a 1/2" high at 100 yards because I figured it will give me a little more leeway on a dead on hold to maybe 150 yards but still be basically point on all the way back to me. Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for the info you provided. |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA Chap, While I very much appreciate all the hard work on that ballistic table I think I may have confused the bullet I was looking for a bit. I should have started another thread I guess, I apologize........you gave me the ballistics ofthe 300gr "Sabertooth" from my open sighted flintlock with 100grs of T7 (I actually use regular Goex black FFg) But anyway I sight in dead on at 50 yards with that gun and will probably never have any desire to shoot it over 75 yards in my life. The bullet I was hoping to hear about was the one I was messing with yesterday9When I should have been shooting the Harvester I guess) ........300gr T/C Shockwave from my CVA Magbolt 150. I am shooting 120grs of T7, with a 1/2" high POI at 100 yards. At 50 yards it was just about 1" high. This is the one I would like to know the ballistics for because it's coming from a scoped inline and I MIGHT see a long shot at some point. I settled on a 1/2" high at 100 yards because I figured it will give me a little more leeway on a dead on hold to maybe 150 yards but still be basically point on all the way back to me. Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for the info you provided. http://www.hornady.com/media/2008_catalog/45-48_ammo_muzzleloading_accessories.pdf using .251 BC, 300g SW, MV=1800, 1/2" high at 100 yards I am going to say the dead on is 125 (I was wrong, 1/2 high at 100 is dead on at 110, so sigh in 110 yards)dropping those into here: http://www.sav10ml.com/pages/load_data/traj_basic_dat.html gives this:  So from 0 to 125 your shooting thru a 1" tube, at 150 you would be about 4" low. I would sight the gun in 3" high at 100, this is called the "3 over method" and basically your shooting thru a 6" tube from 0 to about 175 yards with that load. Chap |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Here is a rerun of your numbers with a 150 yard zero, which is 3" high at 100 yards (convenitent for sight in). Your good to 175 yards with 3" high at 100. Chap
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RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
ORIGINAL: frontier gander Chap, If im not mistaken, thats the bullet under the hide right in front of the shoulder, am i correct? I know it was a 30 yard shot and i cant see any exit hole. I am curious. Chap |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Chap,
You're the man.........thank you so much. I might even be doing better than those numbers because we were thinking 1800fps from 100grs of T7.......I'm running 120grs of loose T7 from the inline and might be pushing darn near 1900fps with that bullet? Solid numbers though Chap thank you!:) |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA Chap, You're the man.........thank you so much. I might even be doing better than those numbers because we were thinking 1800fps from 100grs of T7.......I'm running 120grs of loose T7 from the inline and might be pushing darn near 1900fps with that bullet? Solid numbers though Chap thank you!:) It is free SW here: http://www.sav10ml.com Then Click "Enter" Then on left hand side scroll to NEW Bullet Drop Calculator (this will open a new window) and click on it. Put your Bullet weight, MV, BC, sight-in yards and output increments into the interface. Chap  |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman ORIGINAL: Matt / PA Chap, You're the man.........thank you so much. I might even be doing better than those numbers because we were thinking 1800fps from 100grs of T7.......I'm running 120grs of loose T7 from the inline and might be pushing darn near 1900fps with that bullet? Solid numbers though Chap thank you!:) It is free SW here: http://www.sav10ml.com Then Click "Enter" Then on left hand side scroll to NEW Bullet Drop Calculator (this will open a new window) and click on it. Put your Bullet weight, MV, BC, sight-in yards and output increments into the interface. Chap
Now do yourself a favor and print this to PDF, and make a IE Favoritehere are instructions: http://tinyurl.com/2rwg99 Chap |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA Chap, You're the man.........thank you so much. I might even be doing better than those numbers because we were thinking 1800fps from 100grs of T7.......I'm running 120grs of loose T7 from the inline and might be pushing darn near 1900fps with that bullet? Solid numbers though Chap thank you!:) http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2878035 where I used a TC SW, 300g bullet, 1700 to 2100 MV to show bullet drop at midpoint of the arc. Chap |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
Well I got out to the range today after the thunderstorms rolled through.........humidity was about one million percent. Whew was it muggy. I wasn't holding out much hope for quick ignition times from the ol' T/C Flinter but she didn't dissapoint as usual.
I don't think I have ever had a more reliable and accurate gun in my life...........of course there's a lot of attention to detail involved and our crew has the flintlock thing pretty well ironed out by now. We have a few tuning and prep secrets we use and tehse things go off almost as quick as a darn centerfire. I'm always surprised when guys around me comment at how fast they go BANG when it's done correctly. LOL:D Anyway.......I digress. I ran a couple of the 300gr Harvester Sabertooth bullets down her at 50 yards (3 to be exact) to see how they grouped and they did NOT dissapoint. First shot was 2" low at 50 yards because I forgot my exact hold on that rifle but it was perfectly dead down the middle. Next shot was my preferred front sight on 1/2 center dot and it was 1/2" low of dead center right down the middle again. 3rd shot without cleaning I might add I managed to duplicate the same hold and when the smoke cleared and the binos came up I couldn't find the 3rd hole?:eek: I had one of those.......'What the?" moments. Walked out to the target to look at what went wrong andthe 3rd bullet went almost precisely through the 2nd hole barely cutting a little bit of a notch above it. For all intents and purposes it was same hole. :) So basically if I would have held correctly on bullet #1 I could have potentially had a 3 shot one hole group with an open sighted flintlock. Not too shabby for the weather and heat and the fact that my shooting glasses were fogging like crazy too! LOL I would have shot more but man it's just not a ton of fun when the smoke just HANGS all over you like a blanket in the humidity. To sum it up, even with a limited range session I couldn't have been more impressed, all 3 bullets were in the center of the target centerline not even a 1/8" off left or right. Load was 100grs of Goex black FFFg , Harvester 300gr Sabertooth bullet. Gun is a custom T/C Pennsylvania Hunter (old style stepped round barrel) If these new bullets perform as well as they seem to shoot I think I have another bullet choice that should flip those PA whitetails nicely. :)When it cools a bit I'll really run em' through the ringer but for now I'm pretty happy with that little purchase. |
RE: "Sabertooth" by Harvester Bullets??
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA Well I got out to the range today after the thunderstorms rolled through.........humidity was about one million percent. Whew was it muggy. I wasn't holding out much hope for quick ignition times from the ol' T/C Flinter but she didn't dissapoint as usual. I don't think I have ever had a more reliable and accurate gun in my life...........of course there's a lot of attention to detail involved and our crew has the flintlock thing pretty well ironed out by now. We have a few tuning and prep secrets we use and tehse things go off almost as quick as a darn centerfire. I'm always surprised when guys around me comment at how fast they go BANG when it's done correctly. LOL:D Anyway.......I digress. I ran a couple of the 300gr Harvester Sabertooth bullets down her at 50 yards (3 to be exact) to see how they grouped and they did NOT dissapoint. First shot was 2" low at 50 yards because I forgot my exact hold on that rifle but it was perfectly dead down the middle. Next shot was my preferred front sight on 1/2 center dot and it was 1/2" low of dead center right down the middle again. 3rd shot without cleaning I might add I managed to duplicate the same hold and when the smoke cleared and the binos came up I couldn't find the 3rd hole?:eek: I had one of those.......'What the?" moments. Walked out to the target to look at what went wrong andthe 3rd bullet went almost precisely through the 2nd hole barely cutting a little bit of a notch above it. For all intents and purposes it was same hole. :) So basically if I would have held correctly on bullet #1 I could have potentially had a 3 shot one hole group with an open sighted flintlock. Not too shabby for the weather and heat and the fact that my shooting glasses were fogging like crazy too! LOL I would have shot more but man it's just not a ton of fun when the smoke just HANGS all over you like a blanket in the humidity. To sum it up, even with a limited range session I couldn't have been more impressed, all 3 bullets were in the center of the target centerline not even a 1/8" off left or right. Load was 100grs of Goex black FFFg , Harvester 300gr Sabertooth bullet. Gun is a custom T/C Pennsylvania Hunter (old style stepped round barrel) If these new bullets perform as well as they seem to shoot I think I have another bullet choice that should flip those PA whitetails nicely. :)When it cools a bit I'll really run em' through the ringer but for now I'm pretty happy with that little purchase. Best Wishes, Chap |
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