RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

The amount of powder I use is determined by a couple factors..
what kind of animal am I hunting
what kind of shots would I encounter
what do I want the projectile to do ... such as pass through or hit body and expand
what kind of projectile I am shooting
but the most important is what is the most accurate in the rifle.

If 90 grains is a accurate load, and my shots are only 25 yards, I am still going to use the more powerful 90 grains then say a 70 grain charge. But if a lesser charge is more accurate, and I am not shooting over 50 yards at a thin skinned animal, then the lesser charge might be just fine although I would probably be loaded with the stronger charge.

I know what 80 grains of Pyrodex RS and a .54 caliber ball can do on multiple animals. But if I were hunting with my .58 for instance, it really shoots good with 60 grains of 2f, but with 110 grains it shoots great too and I know that with that powder charge I am really going to lay a world of smack on what I hunt. I am a firm believer that for the most part, when hunting, more powder is better (except in the case of powerbelts). But target shooting, the smaller charges are just as accurate, saves powder, saves my shoulder, and often times is still a good hunting load.

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

I shoot 100gr FFG and a roundball in my 54cal and 120gr FFG and a roundball in my 58cal. Anything within 120gr is fine. I like a little more nock down.

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

Thats kind of the way I was thinking. I havent got to shoot anything with this 54 yet but Im guessin it will get a quick response if I make contact....:D

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

Round balls have their own rules...

We really can't look at foot pounds of energy like we do with modern centerfire ballistics...They aren't very efficient and they kill due to a large frontal mass and weight...When flying through the air they lose velocity faster than a conical because of their low ballistic coefficient (they are short) and, being round with that large frontal mass they slow down much quicker than an elongated bullet...Another characteristic of them, the faster you push them, the faster they slow down...So you start to reach a point where more powder doesn't equate to more killing power, especially out at 100 yards or so...I guess what I'm saying, they don't "cut" through the air, they "push" air in front of them, like a Mack truck vs a small sports car...

Being made of pure lead and being bore size, with a large frontal mass, they do expand easily, even at lower velocities...Since they are bore size, they don't have to expand that much to kill, not like a saboted pistol bullet...Most .50 caliber inlines use a .45 caliber bullet, as we know they don't all expand efficiently when they hit game...This is one advantage of a round ball...

When I built my .54 flinter, I started using 120grs of Goex FF, after a few years, I moved down to 100grs and then settled on 80grs of FFF...One advantage using less powder does is it reduces bore fouling...When you shoot black powder about 60% is left in the bore...One reason guys complain of fouling is they use too much powder, not a big deal when deer hunting, but it is a pain when target shooting or hunting squirrels when several shots may be taken during a hunt...

I've always looked at traditional muzzleloaders as a fairly close range weapon, with most shots taken inside of 100-125 yards...With open sights, that's about as far as most need to be shooting anyway...

I can't tell any difference on how quick a deer falls whether using 120grs of FF, or 80grs of FFF in my .54...I also don't see much difference in penetration...It's almost like too much powder upsets the ball too much, so it sheads weight, which reduces mass, which reduces penetration, much like a PowerBelt...

When I used a .45 flinter, my deer load was 75grs of FFF Goex...That ball weighs about 128grs, but it would bust through both shoulder blades and end up under the hide on the off side...The .54 with it's 220gr ball will usually pass through, unless they are really close, then it seems to flatten out so much that it also ends up under the hide on the off side...

Now, my .54 has a 38 inch long barrel, with guns like a T/C Hawken or Renegade, about 80-85grs is all that's going to be burned before you run out of barrel anyway...

I've actually thought about dropping my powder charge down to 60-70grs of FFF and see how effective it will kill deer and see how it affects penetration...Years ago I talked with a guy that has built muzzleloaders since the 60s, he has collected many originals and has several old hunting bags with non-adjustable powder measures...He said he had never seen a powder measure that held over 50 grains of powder...Now, they may have double charged for deer and single charged for small game...He had killed several deer with a .45 and 50-60grs of powder...

Just some rambling observations...

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

I suspect your comparison of balls to Powerbelts (a`laGander's experiments) is valid.

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

Thanks NC! You make some good points as usual. The only FFF powder I have is Pyro P though. I havent tried it but may just to see how it groups. I always laughed when I seen people shooting those 150 gr mag charges.....and wondered if they were even able to burn half of it.

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

Shoot, i started a small smoldering fire the other day with my great plains rifle and 90g ffg goex. Good thing i wasnt shooting 150g!

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

well for now I think I am leaning toward the .58 cal since it will be strictly for prb. I think you can't go wrong withthe bigger round ball. In the future if I decide I do want a .54 I think I'll get a whole rifle instead of another barrel, maybe a lyman gpr.

As a follow up/spin off, has anyone else heard that green mtn is going to stop producing the IBS for t/c renegades and hawkens? Any truth to this?

Thanks for your help.

Cory

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

I have not heard this, but they have been selling off a lot of stock. Especially the flintlock ones. I sure hope this does not happen. It really makes the Renegade and Hawkins such a versatile and unique rifle.

RE: .54 vs .58 roundball barrel
 

my .54 cal T/C Hawken Renegade was the most accurate black powder rifle I ever owned, until I bought my Encore. Have yet to have any match it though w/iron sights. >530 patch ball with 120 grains- awesome knock down power!

Still own a .58 cal Enfield, three band. Have had it from the 70's. Great gun also. Supposedly they were used during the Civil War by snipers. One of the qualifications for sniper, according to a couple of books I read way back when, they had to hit a man sized silhouete at 500 yds.!! What is sweet about this gun was it shot best with just 80gr powder under a conical bullet. Quick, smooth loading. Draw back though- HEAVY & LONG. Not an all day carrying weapon.