Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Hi everyone,

I'm planning on free-floating the barrel on my New Frontier Cascade Mag. .45 cal this weekend and I'm looking for some advice from those of you who have done this before. I'm planning on using rubber washers or cut aluminum shims to do it as opposed to filing down the stock. Here is a pic of how the barrel beds into the stock. My finger is pointing at where the lug/bolt comes into the stock. There's only one bolt on this rifle.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

I don't know how to insert multiple pictures into one post, so I'm doing it in several. In this pic, my 2 finger are pointing to where the barrel rests into 2 pockets that are on either side of where the bolt is.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Here is how the action inserts into the stock:







As you can see - there is a square base attached to the bottom of the barrel that the bolt screws into. I could put a rubber washer on that square base to raise the barrel, but I'm afraid that the only point of contact will only be that base and it will be too unstable.

My plan as of now is to cut some aluminum shims to put in the pocket forward of where the base is to raise the barrel so it doesn't touch the stock from that point forward.

Do you think this is a good idea? Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Just get a pop can, cut out an assortment of shims and put those in the hollow areas where the barrel lug"s" sit.

If theres material touching your barrel on the sides, that material needs to be removed.

http://www.gbofreeforums.info/ThePow...topic.php?t=17

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Thanks gander!

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

IMO since you only have one stock screw you are going to create more problems than you will ever solve. It obviously takes two points or more for the action to rest upon, and with one screw you can not pick those points with screw pressure, the stock will pick those points.

Again IMO the only way to do want you want to do is to build up the stock with bedding compound, and fully bed the action. that is the only way you can control the pressure points on your action, as well as the pressure points on your barrel.

This is just my opinion(as I stated), but I have done this before, and bedding the action has always given me good results. Your other option is Pillar bedding, but I do not know how you would do that with just one screw??? Tom.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

oldsmellhoundThere are 6 different way [commen ones] that a rifle can be bedded, while free floating the barrel is a very popular one it is not always the best answer. I suggest you pick up a good book on the subject and read up one how to determine what is best for your particular rifle BEFORE you do anything permanent. Lee

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Agree with both the 2 previous posts. You can never really free float that barrel anyway.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

oldsmellhound

I guess i would like to echo in a bit here also, "free floating" is not always the best option - it is closer to the last thing.

My next question would be why do you want to float the barrel?

Floating became somewhat an industry standard because it is cheaper to float than it is seat a barreled action properly.

The only time I would consider "floating" is if the stock is really flexible and will not stand it own weight on the forearm. The usual reason to think float is because the POI of impact is moving as the barrel warms up and/or the barrels seats itself in a different position when the gun is fired.

It would be my suggestion, that you look at both the stock and the barreld action - are there any shiny spots on either the barrel or the stock?

Just thinking out loud...

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Thanks for all the replies.

To answer a few questions - I'm not interested in spending money on bedding the action. It's a $100 rifle, and I don't really want to spend much money on it. I'm free floating the barrel to (hopefully) increase the accuracy by relieving any points where the stock is putting pressure on the barrel forward of the lugs.

I decided to just file away the points on the stock that were forward of the action and touching the barrel. Since I'm not messing with how the action is bedded, I don't see how this could screw anything up. Worst-case scenario is that I mar a cheap-o synthetic stock, which I'm not worried about.

Maybe it will help, maybe it won't. I won't make it to the range to try it out for a few weeks, but I'll make sure to post a range report when I do. The way I see it- I've only been able to consistently shoot 4" groups at 100 yards, which I'm not happy with. Even if it doesn't make much of a difference, at least it's a try. I finished the filing job - I can slide a piece of paper up to the first lug now - the barrel isn't touching the stock up until that point.

Thanks again for all the advice!

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Thats exactly how i did my winchester. The action part of the barrel barely hovered over those beds the stock has inside it.

What load are you shooting?

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Theolder CVAactions look almost like that action. Have floated the barrels on a couple dozen CVA guns for other folks and myself.Itake a bent half round wood rasp and rasp away the sides of the barrel channel.Do not rasp in the area 1.5 inches forward of the barrel lug. Rasp until the barrel floats when put in the stock. Check it with a business card.Then rough up the stock where the action sits with coarse sand paper. Although it does not look possible, it is fairly easy to glass the very rear of the action: Rough up about .5 inch of the stock to the rear of thechannel with sand paper.Drill a couple of shallow one-quarter holes in the stock at an angleand just above the rear trigger screw. The trigger screw does not matter. Fill the Allen wrench hole in the screw with grease.

Preparation for bedding: Put release agent onall metal parts that the bedding compound will touch: Putrelease agent on the sides of the action. Now do it one more time.

Bedding:

Put bedding compound in the holes you drilled in the rear of the action channel. Put bedding compound in the channelto the front and rear of the barrel lug.Put bedding compound in the lug recess. It is a well glassed lug that makes it possible to successfully bed these muzzleloaders that have only one action screw. Put the gun together and tighten the screw. Excess bedding compound will be forced out. Do not over do it with the bedding compound. You get another chance if the glass job is not perfect.

Takes me abouttwo hours to to float the barrel and glass the action on this type of gun. BTW: Everyone I everfired shot better than before bedding and floating.

I use AcraGlass gel for all my bedding. This is my old CVA Staghorn. Italso has an aluminum pillar. This gun shoots as well as guns costing ten times as much.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

falcon, apparently oldsmellhound and I are having some similar issues. sounds like he is getting a little tighter groups tho. Where did you pick up the material to do the work in the pic? from a gunshop? My other question would be, did you have the ram rod in place when you bedded it?

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

You make a good point. The only disagreement I have is in your bedding price. Go to a plumbing store and for a couple of buck's you can have your bedding compound. Then all you need is a little Vaseline. Now you are ready to bed your rifle. It is pretty simple. As stated above do a little reading on it, and you will be amazed what you can achieve from an inexpensive rifle. Tom.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

"Where did you pick up the material to do the work in the pic? from a gunshop? My other question would be, did you have the ram rod in place when you bedded it?"

My Brownell's AcraGlas Jel comesNatchez. Bass Pro should have it.Ihad the ramrod in place.It is a goodidea to coat the end of the ramrod with grease in case some bedding compound gets on it.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Falcon,

It looks like your Staghorn and my Cascade Magnum have essentially the same design. I understood everything that you wrote except one part. When you say "action channel" are you refering to the section where the trigger drops down? There is a small ledge on the stock at the very rear end of the action - there is a screw there. Is this the part you are referring to? Otherwise, I all seems pretty clear. Thanks for the advice and the pic!

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

"When you say "action channel" are you refering to the section where the trigger drops down?"

No,I could not think of a better term at the time. Your gun and barrel areone piece construction likethe newer CVA guns. I was thinking of the part of the channel thatbegins abouttwo inches forward of the lug and extends to the rear. Do not grind or filein this area. Justscratch it a little with sand paper so the bedding can get a good hold.

Looks like you have done a good job floating the barrel on your gun. Bedding adds support to the rear of the gun barrel/action. Your gun has a better stock than some of the CVA guns: Some of them are pretty flimsy and they flex a lot.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Falcon,

Thanks again for all the advice. I'll see where I can find some of the gel you use for bedding - the picture you posted was helpful for that. I've never bedded an action before - I assume with the gel there will be application instructions. I didn't file the action channel where the action rests on - when I get the bedding compound I'll rough it up with sandpaper like you said.

Gander- I've had time this year to work up 2 loads - 1: 70 grains 777 with 225 grain Powerbelt
2: 80 grains 777 with 200 grain XTP

The powerbelts actually shoot better (2.5" groups at 100 yards) but I haven't used them for deer hunting because of all the horror stories I've heard (I know all the arguments - I'm not trying to start it again). I used the XTP load to take 1 deer this year - it performed excellent, but I'm not happy with the accuracy I'm getting (4" groups).

I'm hoping to book some serious time at the range this spring once the weather clears up some to try out some new combinations.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

oldsmellhound, If the PB works better, then try the Sabor tooth they are a greatly improve version of the same type of bullet. It may also be your load, normally start at 90 and work up to 120 for sabot loads. Lee

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

hes shooting a .45 and sabertooths are .50 only.

I actually melted a sabertooth when molding round balls, and the copper is actually no thicker than that of a powerbelt. I'll have to post some pics of that.

225 grain powerbelt with 70 grains one hell of a load for deer.

225 grain aerotip powerbelt with 80 grains triple 7, 80 yard shot right through both shoulders.



You can see where she dropped, the smuged dirt just a little bit above the branches,

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Gander - thanks for pointing that out - I've heard about sabertooths, but I'm shooting a .45 so I'm out of luck.

I know you've had success with the powerbelts, but I've decided to shy away from them for a couple reasons:

#1. They DO shoot better than the sabot loads I've tried so far, but only on a fouled barrel. The first shot on a clean barrel is often off by several (or many) inches. I know a lot of people recommend shooting a fouling shot before going hunting, but I'm not usually able to do that. I live in the city, and drive to our family's land to go hunting. I can't shoot a fouling shot in my backyard unless I want a personal visit from Mr. Lawman. I often get up early in the morning, make the drive and go hunting that day. So unless I want to drive to a range or to the land several days before, shoot a fouling shot, then leave my rifle with a dirty barrel for awhile, it's not an option.

#2. I hunt in very open, grassy territory without much cover. It means that shots are often very long. The closest shot I've had in the past 2 years was 100 yards. I want to work up the flattest-shooting load possible so that I can extend my reach - 225 grain powerbelt + 70 grains of powder = rainbow trajectory at long ranges. If you push it with a higher powder charge to flatten the trajectory, you run into the possibility of the bullet blowing up at close range if you happen to stumble on something close by.







Here's a pic of the type of territory I hunt - There's a piebald deer in the center that we saw several years in a row. It's a couple hundred yards away - the picture was using maximum zoom.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

This kit at Midway is said to be very good and comes with detailed instructions http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=790049

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

Thanks underclocked - I saw that kit at midwayusa too - thinking about getting it. Seems pretty easy to use.

RE: Advice on free-floating barrel
 

When i was using triple 7, my first shot would be exactly right where i wanted it, the next 2-3 shots would be exactly 3" higher. I blame the powder. I swithed to pyrodex and all 3 shots stay right where i aim.
If you bump your charge up to 80 grains with that 225 "Or 223 platinum" You'd only be 4" low @ 150 if you sight in dead on at 100 yards.

This is the unit i was hunting last year and was ready for a 150-160 yard shot if i needed it,