Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Finally got a chance to get out and do some shooting today--100 yards. 15 shots of Barnes Origonals .458 diameter300g, 44g of Accurate Arms 5744, Federal 209a primers, different Sabots. The first sabot was a crushed rib, a .452 sabot with a .458 bullet. This was the first 5 shots, no waiting between shots. All5 shots laid out, with sabots, with primers and with the power vials. The Crushed Rib was very hard to load. Very hard. 3 shots touching, about 1.5".
Chap

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Here is the next 5 shots, with the Orange MMP .458 sabot, much easier to load. I thought it would be good to use, since it was easy to load. But it was not as accurate as the CR. Chap

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

The next 5 shot were with the .452 3 Petal EZ from MMP. They were very hard to load also. I thought they would break the Savage ram rod, in fact the Spin Jag was scraping the crown. Nice group, but not a good as the first 5 shots with the black Crushed Rib. I also tried the red smokeless Crushed Rib sabots, but they was so tight I had to get a pair of plyers to take the bullet out. It was so hard to get out, that I deformed the bullet a bit.
Chap

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Those Barnes did a good job. The smokeless Savage is a most interesting rifle. What do you think is the most accurate load you can shoot out of that rifle?

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Got yourself a knock-em-download there, Chap.Those Barnes originals are fine bullets.

What was the range? Did you notice much difference in recoil between the orange sabots and the tight ones?

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

I think this Savage will shoot any bullet to 3" hunting accuracy, which is what I considered acceptable for my Remington 760 30-06 before I got into MLing, now I consider 2" acceptable and with the Savage, 1.5" is acceptable. It shoot the Parker Ballistic Extremes 275g very well (1.5") with an MMP12 sabot. It shoots the TC SW 300g very well with the supplied sabot (all shots touching). It shoots these Barnes Origonal very well, with the CR sabot. I figure if I switch to 4198 powder I will get 30010 350 more fps and shoot 200 yards with a 3" high at 100 yard MPBR. I will now shoot the Barnes Pistol PBX 275g and the Barnes Flat Base 300g, which is really the hollow point MZML bullet in a .458 diameter. I like the shoot thru and no weight loss of the Barnes, they go thru bone.

I think if someone wanted a very accurate plinking ML gun, that is cheap to shoot and easy to clean (like a couple of times a year), then an XTP in 250g with 44g of AA would give 1.5" groups every day of the week and is 1/2 the cost of shooting 777, since 44g is about 50% of a 100g load. I would also consider that a hunting load with a 300gXTP, even though I know it sheds it jacket (SabotLoader showed that).The Savage was designed around the 300g XTP with 2000 fps mildrecoil with 44g of AA 5744. I shoot 5744 cause it always fires.I now know what "tight sabot" means in a Savage, it is a lot different than "tight" in an Omega, becuse the Savage doesn't leave all the crap in the barrel. All I know is it is one accurate easy to clean rifle and I plan on using mine in rifle season and use my Omega in ML season.I may event try Nosler 300g in my Savage, but I really like the way these Barnes shoot and perform on game (from what I have read). As much shooting as you do, I would consider a Savage as a cost saving measure and a good gun to shoot on days you don't wanna clean a MLer.
Chap

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

It was 100 yards. Yes those Barnes will do it, but the Origonals don't retain 100% of weight, so I will try the PBX (the Pistol X bullet) and theFlat Base, which is like theMZ only .458 in diameter. Just to see how they print. I have two boxes of the PBX and 1 box of the Flat Base.There was little recoil since I was using a Lead Sled, with about 5 lbs of sand on it. I did not notice any difference between sabots in terms of recoil. Usually after 10 shots I start feeling my arm getting sore, today nothing, not sore 1 bit. I will have to see if the lead sled kills my scope. Chap

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Glad you're not sore. I took 6 shots with 70 grains ffg goex and .490 PRB and my upper shoulder hurts :D I really need to reshape that brass buttplate.

Nice shootin.

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Oh there it chap, nice shooting. I couln't get it to come up on the savage forum.

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Those originals seem to do real good. From all I have read they are a deadly load on about anything you want to hunt. So it is a good load and rifle you have there Chap. I can understand the appeal of the Savage for sure.

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Got to my web site, www.the-gleasons.com. Click on the Savage Link, then click on the Barnes Origonal linknear the bottom of the page. Chap

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

The Shockwaves really were accurate, as were the Hornady 300 grain XTP. And the Parker Extremes do real well too. I know nothing about smokeless powder, but with them Shockwaves and that powder charge, what kind of velocity would you be getting out of it?

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Very good shooting.

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Here is what the manual says for XTP and SSTbullets, which was same as a SW. I am sure any 300g bullet will be about the same.
Chap

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Something about those numbers chap, from the reports I've heard they are about 100-150 fps high. As blackpowder shooters we are all aware how manufacter's push the truth a little bit. When I first tried shooting at 300, I was about 4-6" lower than I expected. Others told me the velocity I was expecting wasn't really that high. I dont have a chrony, but I should get one.

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Rgiht I remember some of the guys saying the 5744 was about 1900 or something like that. Chap

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

In my savage I have shot a other powders but these are all I have in my notes at hand that have chrono's facts for more then just one or 2 testings.

250gr SST/SW/XTP's

43.5gr 4759 - 2330fps Ave.(1" groups)
43.5gr VV110 - 2337fps Ave. (2" groups)
44gr 5744 - 2091fps Ave. (1.5" groups)

250gr Barnes MZ 43gr 4759 2300 (1.5" groups)

300gr SST/XTP

43gr 4759 - 2190 Ave 2" groups
68.5gr H4198 - 2300 Ave
70gr H4198 - 2390 Ave
(both H4198 loads get your attention when you light then off. In my case the recoil just isn't worth the performance. I shoot for groups and my groups suffered when i shot off a pod or sand bags with H4198. I have had a few shoulder operations, having to swilldrugs and need ice just isn't as appealing as it once was for me.;) Though the accuracy potential certainly was there so if you don't mind the boot it may be the powder for you with 300 class bullets.)

Savage is a fine shooter its been interesting/fun but just like every ML I have owned it has its quirks and makes you scratch your head. I am actually planning to get a new toy this year. My plans for the savage are to stay with 4759 as the propellant and 250class bullets.

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

I have some H4198, and my first shot with it was a very loud "crack", and I could tell immediately with the 300 grain bullets that it was stout. I was shooting 66g, I believe. What bullet are you going to stay with for your Savage, your excellent shooting SW/SST/XTP or the Barnes MZ with the 43g of 4759? I like the Barnes hollow points for under 100 yard hunting, I don't think that they can be beat, for >100 yards then the Barnes Origonals are my choice, so that is what I am leaning to. If they Barnes Origonals retained 100% of weight I would stay with them. Chap Gleason

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

I use the barne's originals 300 grain ssin my Savage and they shoot great, Its the only bullet that I will ever use. I believe that the original is a very tough bullet and you have to push them. I shot several deer and never recovered a bullet. All pass thru's. I am very fortunate in that I purchased several lifetimes of these bullets when they were relatively cheap :DI use 60 grains of N120 with an orange sabot. That is a stout load tho.;):D
Redclub

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

Chap I will use both loads for hunting. The 250gr SST/SW will be used when I am hunting in open counrty for Mulies or antelope and I anticipate shots of 100 to 250 as the norm. My experience has shown that once the bullet SST bullets slows at extended ranges its a killer in the savage, even if you use a shoulder shot. ( back in the fall I posted a picture of a recovered slug off a mulie doe where i purposely shot her throughthe pins at 170yards - bullet performed very well and I received pentration to the opposite side (under the hide). The mulie never took a step!) When it comes to my Whitetail spot I will refer to the Barnes MZ or similar b/c of shorter range and may needing to excute the shoulder shot. I will also refer to the barnes for game such as bear, elk and moose. I say I am done but I'll probably be back flinging new loads before to long, the will be my baseline loads until the time comes that they get unseated. I planned to try the Parker Extreme's but couldn't get any last year in time...so that will be one I'll try.

As far as H4198 goes it has the potential, its just that I needed to get my charge up to see it show itself and I didn't really enjoy shooting. Enjoyment is the reasonI shoot, so when thats gone well it becomes a question of why??

Red i sure wish my gun like VV powder, N120 load was very tolerable under 300 gr SW but the 4" group wasn't (load was 60.5gr never went higher as it just wasn't showing anything)!!:D I think I am one of maybe 10 savage shooters who has problems getting either N110 and N120 to shoot[:o]. I have never tried the barnes orginals in my savage though!

RE: Homework--Barnes Origonal 300g, different sabots, 44g of AA 5744
 

That is a good strategy, the SST for long range and the Barnes MZ for shot range work. I plan on doing the same thing, except the Barnes Origonals will be my long range bullet, better BC and better long range energy.

I had problems last year getting PBE, at MidSouth Shooter's supply. I bought some at Gander Mountain, the Remington PT is the same bullet as the PBE. Also the Traditions XLR (extended long range) is the PBE, now they sell 15 of those in a package for the same price as you get 12 of the PBE's from Parker's web site. If you shoot them, get yourself 4 packages before hunting season, then you will have enough for the whole hunting season. I had only 7 bullets left out of the 4 packages I bought, and I didn't miss only 1 time, I must have shot out about 10 or 15 after a week or longer sitting in the barrel, man I hate doing that. Chap