Good Start
 

I was going to turn in my homework as noted in another post but I can't find the cable for my camera.

This week I took delivery of a very nice stainless/laminatedWhite Ultra Mag .504 that I bought from forum member Tenmilephenom. I only had to work half a day today so I headed out to the range to give it a try. The gun has Fiber Optic sights which I'm not real use to but they seem to work fine, I may put a peep on this rifle just cause I like them better. The gun is set up with the musket cap BP so I went and bought some of those earlier this week, I like the size and ease of use they allow over the #11's. The gun functioned flawlessly.

I started off shooting 460 Bull Shops (.504's) and 70gr of Pyro P to see if it was on paper at 50 yards, it was about 4 inches high and centered and grouped around 3". I made an elevation adjustment to put it closer to POA. I then bumped the powder up to 80gr and shot a 3 shot group of around 3" that was about 2" low. Next I shot 4 shots using 90gr, I had 2 shots about 1.5" apart and 2 that were almost touching but a couple of inches from the other 2. I then bumped up to 100gr of powder and got a 3 shot group of about 2.5" but still a bit low so I adjusted the sight to bring it up a bit. I then shot 3 more using 110gr of powder, shots 2 and 3 were touching and shot 1 was about 1.75" higher and dead center of the target.

Notes: The .504 BS's are a bit loose so I need to go with .5045 or .505 next time I order. I need more practice with the FO sights or a peep so I can get a more consistant sight picture. I have the beginings of some very promising loads but need to work on my open sight skills before I know for sure which one is best.

One thing that bothered me a bit was that the Bull Shops were to easy to load, the weight of the ram rod would push them all the way down to the powder even with a fouled barrel, this would not be safe to hunt with. I also tried some 400gr White conicals but only 1 of 2 hit the target so I gave up on those. I shot one sabot bullet (Buffalo 285SSB) to see what would happen, it hit the target about 5" high and 4" left. I would have shot some more but I had skipped lunch and was getting tired and hungry so I cleaned the gun and packed up. The cleanup was a bit surprising, I ran a brush with some Rusty Duck on it for a few strokes and then 3 wet patches of Rusty Duck both sides and the third patch came out clean. I couldn't believe it was clean already so I ran an alcohol patch to see if anything else came out, it was clean. I then tried a patch of Ballistol and it too came out clean so I ran another alcohol patch to remove the Ballistol and followed that with a patch of Sheath for good measure. I then pulled the striker out and cleaned the breach area with just a few patches and was done. this is one of the fastest cleaning guns I have.

I must say I am very pleased so far and can't wait to do some more shooting with it, I just need some tighter fitting bullets to try in it. I also need to find the cable for my camera so I can post the picturesI took.

RE: Good Start
 

I shoot the same rifle. I found that Swiss 3f or Triple Se7en 3f works best for me. Although Pyrodex P is another good powder, as is Goex 3f. I like to also use a .510 wad with the Bull Shop 460 grain. Be sure to try the 500 grain Bull Shop sometime. They really shoot well. I have the .5045 diameter in the UM and they stay on the powder just fine. That ramrod sending the bullet down takes time to get used to as there is none of the hard loading and swabbing that you might have been used to...

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

Cascadedad worked his U-Mag through about the same shooting routine as you - we both felt the .504 was to loose - He ended up getting .5045, at that time that was as bif as Dan could make themand they worked well. He, his son, his father and now I think his brother are all using that bullet.

I do not have any of the .5045, but I am sure that Cdad does - you want to get a few from him and send them you way for a trail run?

He also switched out all of his to the peep sight - can not remember which one but it helped him a bunch and what ever peep he used it was really versitile and easy to use. How about the front sight - the one that came stock on the gun was set for sabots and lighter bullets - seems most switched that out also.

I really do like mine, although I have not shot any of the naked lead through it yet. It is scoped up and I use it with Noslers and a HPH-12 sabot - DEADLY...

Which stock do you have?

RE: Good Start
 

I've experienced the ease of loading with both the No Excuse and Bull Shop conicals but these were looser than any I've tried. I'm sure its due to the .504 bore, the largest bore my other rifles have is .502. The thing that bothered me even more that I forgot to mention above is that the first sabot bullet I loaded was also loose, in fact the bullet came backout with the ram rod because it stuck in the loading jag (SST type) and the sabot stayed in the barrel on the powder. Not good. I had to shoot the sabot out and reload using a different loading jag.

I think I'm going to set this gun up as a conical shooter and use the sabots in my other guns, after all, that was the main reason I bought the White.

RE: Good Start
 

I think he went with the Lyman 57SMT since it attaches to the side of the Ultra Mag with no drilling. Its already tapped for the peep sight. Some of them were getting marble front sights and Redclub shoots the same set up. He was shooting groups at 200 yards with the open peep sight using his elk load. It was pretty impressive...

RE: Good Start
 

Sabotloader,
I would love to try some before I order a couple hundred and find out if they work or not. I would also be interested in what peep Cdad is using and what he thinks about it. The stock on mine is the gray laminated and it is in very good condition.

One other thing for you Umag shooters. Tenmilephenom didn't have a manual for it, does anyone know if there are manuals available, either printed or online? Also, what extra parts should I talk to Doc about getting, just in case? Anyone using the 209 setup on their Umag? How do you like it? Thanks for any help you can provide.

RE: Good Start
 

I have the manual for mine.. It is not in book form. It is better described as sheets of typing paper with all the material printed out on it.

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

Next time I go over to Tri-cities - I will hit him up for some .5045 - my daughter lives over there which is no big deal - I go over a lot because of the grand daughters - so I am sure we will be headed over in the next week or two... In fact I'll call Cdad and have him get on here and can tell you what he has found and which peep he is using....

I'll find my manualand make a copy of it for you....

I shoot 209's out of mine and there are two different types of 209 BP's for the M-97, one with out a spring clip to hold the 209 in and one with the spring clip - for me the one with the spring is far better. You have probably already found out there is a lot of blowback with a White but it is such a simple action it really is easy to clean. I really prefer the 209 but a ton of White shooters including Doc prefer the #11

When i got mine I also got an extra 209 Hammer, a couple ofextra hammer spring ( the heavy spring vs the light spring), even the hammer spring end cap, an extra hammer handle, extra 209 BP. Any or all of these parts are easily made if you really need to get one.... The big thing is there are no extra trigger assemblies - so really be careful when you are removing the breech plug not to hook the trigger assembly and bend the hammer catch. I use a deep socket for this project but I have ground the back edge of the socket to form a cone so the socket will not catch the trigger assembly.

I will send Cdad and e-mail right now....

RE: Good Start
 

David

It sounds like the Umag has alot of potenchuall !!! keep us updated O by the way I did send you that other BP let me know when you get it .

Ron

RE: Good Start
 

Thanks Sabotloader.

I did notice the trigger catching the socket when I was taking out the BP and yes it does have some blowback but as you said, it's not that hard to clean up. I also like the fact that I can shoot it many times before I need to swab the barrel, I only swabbed when I switched to a different bullet. I shot probably 17 or 18 shots before I swabbed and it still loaded as easy as the first ones.

I may look into getting the 209 setup as an alternative but so far I like the way the musket caps go on and off, much easier than the #11's. Do you have instructions for adjusting the trigger? I would like to lower the pull weight just a bit.

Thanks again.

RE: Good Start
 

Thanks Indiana Smokepole, I'll keep an eye out for it.

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

I think I do - I'll look - it is a bold trigger and really staight forward..

Here are the directions...

http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=72854158534182&mkt=en-US&lang=en-US&w=f029359c&FORM=CVRE

It is a file that is downloaded from Boyd's Stocks.... OOP's that might not be the right one - but they are basically the same - I will look in my file also...

Oh! here is mine - ain't that a thang of beauty...

RE: Good Start
 

OK, here are some pictures. I had to retake them with a different camera which is too bad because I had a couple of nice senic shots of Pikes Peak as seen from the range on the other camera.

First is the 3 groups with 80, 90 and 100 grains of Pyro P.



Next is the 110 grain group.



And a picture of my new addition.



Hopefully you can see the labeling I wrote in, I only had a ball point pen so it's kind of tough to see. I don't have a ruler but the targets are about 5" in diameter.

RE: Good Start
 

:D:DWhen I first glanced at that sideways picture of the gun I thought it was floating the the air over a kitchen counter. :D

RE: Good Start
 

That is a beautiful rifle... what bullet were you shooting?

RE: Good Start
 

Sorry about that Semisane, I forgot to rotate the picture before I posted it. Then again, I guess that confirms your wife is correct.:D

Cayugad, I was shooting the 460 BS .504's which were a bit loose. I think a tigher fit would also tighten the groups but won't know till I try them. I also think more practice with the sights or a peep would help also. The front sight is about as big as the black target at 50 yards. I tried doing a 6 o'clock hold but it shot too low and my adjustment was geting close to the top already. I think I need a lower front sight.

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

I found my White Owners Manual - do you still need a copy? Have not touched base with Cdad as of yet, but it looks like we are going over to Kennewick today - so I should be able to catch him if he is in town...

RE: Good Start
 

Sabotloader,
I still need a copy of the manual, thanks. Let me know what you find out from Cdad.

Indiana Smokepole,
The breach plug came in today, thanks.

RE: Good Start
 

Well, I'm finally catching up on this topic, been out of the loop for awhile. Just talked to Sabotloader on the phone.

Yes, I have put the Lyman 57SMT on 3 U-Ms. My brother also put one on his. You will need to change out the front sight also. I can dig out that info if you need it.

I have a White Lightning also and I mounted a scope on it, but I also bought a Williams peepsite for it. The Lyman won't work with the Lightning. I am pretty sure the Williams will also work on the U-M. Not sure which one I like better, they both seem to have their advantages/disadvantages. Maybe get away without changing the front sight if you get the Williams.

Regarding the Bullshops. I think the .5045's will be perfect for you. All 4 U-M's in my family like the .5045's. They don't shoot any better than the .504's, but will definitely give you a better feeling that they will not slide off the load. Let me know if you have any other questions.

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

I will make a copy and get it in the mail... PM me your address again...

mike

RE: Good Start
 

Thanks for the info and the PM has been sent.

RE: Good Start
 

http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/M97%20Instruction%20Manual.htm basically the same rifle - you can download that or copy and paste it to a word doc or similar. Might need to reformat the font.

If that rifle isn't bedded, I would recommend it - perhaps a bit later. Also, you might want to add some sealant to the inside of the stock.

Semisane, I was looking for strings - didn't see any so just went on down the page. :D

RE: Good Start
 

David

Has your Barrle lug been bedded yet?
Also I would go with a .505 bullet size and a .510A wad card from Track of the wolf I would also pick up some 777 2fg & 3fg and start with 75gr then go up in .5gr incriments.

I do not like a slip fit conical at all I like the rifleings to cut the bullet as it is loaded . And I found alot better Accuracy by useing a over the powder wad also.

I think you may be getting to much blowby as loose as your bullet is . plus not having the right fit on your bullet. Sounds like alot playing aginst you right now . If your stock is not bedded I would Deff. do that first.

Ron

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

I forgot doc had them on line.... the one UC pointed out is pretty much what I have....

I also have some of the orginal White conicals here if I can find them - I'll send them to you. Found them - they mic out .504+

I'll try to get them in the mail this week.... let me know what you think about the online manual...

Might need to check with Dan but I am sure the largest one he makes for the White 504 is .5045 - seems like Cdad and I went through this already...

mike

RE: Good Start
 

UC,
Thanks for the link to the online manual. I will download it, reformat it and print it. As best I can tell the stock is not bedded so I will need to look into that. What type of seallant do you suggest for the inside of the stock?

Indiana Smokepole,
I have around 5 or 6 powders available including the 2 777's you mentioned. I will probably try the 777 3F out next time I get out. Thanks for the other info and ideas.

Sabotloader,
I will download the online manual so thanks for the offer anyway. I do have some 400 grain White conicals I bought some time back to try in another gun, when I ordered them they asked what the bore measured and I think I told them .501 so the ones you have may be larger than the ones I have. If you want to get rid of them I certainly will give them a try. I also need to check with a friend that has a mould for a No Excuses style bullet. I need to find out how big they come out of the mould at, I do know he has sizers for .501 and .502 so they must be larger than that. If they are big enough I may hit him up to let me use it for a few days and see if I can put a dent in the 100 or so pounds of pure lead I have.

RE: Good Start
 

You're welcome, but I have to tell you that owner's manual is mostly garbage and is very outdated. The only thing of real significance in it (beyond the ususal safety rules) is the order of disassembly and reassembly of components. And the biggee there is to remember to remove the trigger first when disassembling the action and install it first (THAT IS THE BIG ONE) when reassembling. If you put the action internals in before installing the trigger, you'll have issues. :)

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BOLD%20TRIGGER.doc

RE: Good Start
 

Thanks for the heads up UC. Is there a way to make the documents larger, I'm having trouble reading the attachments you sent. Are those available online anywhere?

RE: Good Start
 

I ran them through my OCR software and they came out worse. :) Those are images that were originally sent to me by Boyd's.

Ah-hah! Found the same thing in aWord doc at Boyd's http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BOLD%20TRIGGER.doc - MUCH better

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

Here is the web site.... which will give you the PDF file

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BOLD%20TRIGGER.pdf

RE: Good Start
 

Thanks for the links guys, they are much better.

Any suggestions on what to use to seal the inletting of the stock as mentioned earlier by UC?

As far as bedding the action goes, should I float the barrel or bed the whole thing? What has worked on these guns for youguys?

RE: Good Start
 

Any good wood sealer. Minwax makes a pre-stain sealer and a sanding sealer that should both be good. The sanding sealer might be the better of the two.

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

I shot mine with a lacquer - same stuff I use on cabinets... actually they domake a spray can of Lacquer also - Deft makes it if I remember right... The other thing that I have used is a Poly sanding sealer works very well and easy to apply with a sponge brush.... both the lacquer and the sanding sealer dry hard and are impervious toliquids...

Example of Deft:



When i did mine I shot the whole stock insie and out... the out side of the stock needs to be sealed also... Dave used stock wax and waxed the heck out of his to protect it.

RE: Good Start
 

dmurphy317

Not the same trigger but the principles are close.

http://www.quarterbore.com/library/articles/rem700trigger.html

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/RemingtonTriggers.asp

RE: Good Start
 

On my White UM I took Birchwood Casey Stock Wax and a small model builders brush. I painted the entire inside of the stock with a heavy coat of wax, and then the outside of the stock as well. Then set that in a corner to dry over night. The next day, with a clean cotton sock, I began to buff that wax excess off. I've done that twice now in all the time I have owned it. I have hunted in rain and snow, and the moisture beads up on the stock just perfect. It can get a little slick in wet weather, but I have gloves with some funky grip thing on the inside palms, and that takes care of that problem. It was easier and faster then polyurethane. I think that is what you're asking about...

RE: Good Start
 

Thanks again for all the info.

RE: Good Start
 

My GP flintlockcame with nothing more than a dull stain finish.I coated it with wax, then hit it with my wife's hair dryer, then rubbedit in,let it dry, and buffed it. Did that three times and it came out real nice. Very weatherproof.

RE: Good Start
 

did some work on my GPR lastnight and used Tru-oil on the inside of the barrel channel, lock and every area that was covered with something. The outside of the stock is boiled linseed oil. Lots of hand rubbed coats.