50 cal knockdown power
 

I have a 50 caliber inline muzzleloader, I am looking for the most accurate 300 grain bullet available. I now shoot Hornady sabots in 300 grain. I shot a buck on jan. 26th at 40 yards with 100 grain pyrodex pellets. The shot was well placed in the shoulder direct broadside. The buck flipped over on his back, stood up, and then slowly walked off. It was lightly raining and I pursued him after 30 minutes. There was no blood trail what-so-ever and therefore I wasn't able to find him. I am in search of the most devastating black powder bullet available. Any ideas???

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

I use the Barnes Expander MZ in 250 and 300 gr. Others will come in and tell you their favorites but Google the Barnes and read the articles. Thats why Iwent withthem. They are also sold under the Knight Red Hot.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

grunterhunter6574

Without a doubt - the Nosler .458/300 grain Partion Protected Point in a MMP HPH-.457/.458x 50 Orange sabot or the the .451/300 grain Nosler - aboutthe same bullet. The .458 is a bullet manufactured for the 45-70 rifle. The draw back and I believe there are two...
1. expensive
2. at very close ranges can get it and out of a deer to quickly...

I use the Nosler .451/260 grain Partition HP on deer - devastating.

There is another another choice that is less expensive that can be used on deer or elk... .452/300 grain Speer Gold Dot. It is a bonded bullet and it has controlled exspansion down the dot in the the core. It really is a "poor man's" Nosler.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2520381&mpage=1&key=boom%2cflop% 2celk&#2520603

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2520381&mpage=1&key=boom%2cflop% 2celk&#2520603

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2528536&mpage=1&key=.458%2cNosle r%2celk&#2528536

Also as mentioned - if you find the right one and one that will fit in your bore - Barnes solid copper bullets are awfull hard to beat...

While there has been a lot of success stories posted using the new polymere tipped pointy bullets - it is awful hard to beat a Nosler over a wide range in distance and the wide range of velocities that it will work with.

Just my 2 cents....

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

If you want to stay around the 300 gr range, I'll second the barnes expanders and the Nosler partitions. Both are great bullets.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

385 grain hornady great plains conical or a 348 grain powerbelt does some nasty damage on game.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

I've gotnot somuch an idea as a thought...How do you knowthe shotwas well placed in the shoulder if you never found him? Just because that might have been where you were aiming doesn't necessarily mean that's where you hit. Maybe you need a more accurate bullet/load instead of a more 'devastating' one.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

Well it is a shame you lost the deer. Hard to say what happened since the deer was not recovered. I will say if you shot a 300 grain Hornady XTP, they are known for taking many deer in the past and will do so in the future. I shoot them out of a number of rifles. I have not had the chance to try them on a deer yet.

If I had to pick a real knock them flat bullet it would be a Barnes Expander in 300 grain or a Nosler Partition in 260 grain. I just can not picture a deer taking a direct hit through the boiler room and making it very far without a lot of blood loss.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

I am supposed to have some GD sometime later this week. I have a good supply of the Knight/Barnes Poly tipped bullets that I will use for hunting next year. I am working up a load for the Rwem 700 using the 260 Nosler an some T7 to use when I am using one of the shooting houses. My buddy in North Ala says he has saved me 2 (X18 ) more packs of the Knight 250 gr poly tipped bullets at $17.95. That will give me about 90 of them. Got them locked up in the safe.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

I use Powerbelt 295gr hollowpoints. They do their job.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

I'm a big fan of the Barnes, but I don't doubt any of the claims about Nosler and Speer GDHP.

I've shot one deer with a Barnes Expander and the results were awesome, by the truest sence of the word.

I currently shoot the Barnes Spitfire 245g and get clover leaf groups at 100yds. I took my two best bucks with this bullet.

The main thing is to find a proven bullet (nosler, gold dot or barnes) that gives you the accuracy you are looking for...all barrels are different.

here is another thread about the Spitfire 245g http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2458656

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

I have killed 4 deer with the Barnes 290gr TMZ ( the ones with the plastic tip ) and 3 of them never took a step and the other one stumbled less than 20 yds. These shots ranged from 25 to a little over 50 yds, I used 120grs of 777, out of my Omega.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

sounds like you just hit the brisket, that will leave little to no blood trail and most of the time will knock one down.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

Sounds like you either a) missed the vitals or b) the bullet hit bone and fragmented explosively on the surface.

I've shot all types of bullets and killed over 100 deer and never had one hit through the lungs or heart go far. The few bad shots sometimes resembled what you described.

Without being too graphic, I've helped track deer than lost half their digestive tract to one or more 12gauge slugs and made it half a mile or more. Devastation doesn't mean much if it isn't the chest, and if you're in the chest the difference between bullets isn't very significant.

I've tried the 300gr Precision Rifle Keith Nose hollowpoint, a hunk of soft lead with a gaping wide hollowpoint. They expand more than the size of a quarter, yet don't put deer down any quicker than a 200gr Shockwave.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

the shot was well placed, (by luck) mainly due to the area that was bleeding. He stood up, staggering, then walked off slowly. There was definately an entry wound just to the aft side of the shoulder. Im not an expert hunter....just one with "frequent flyer miles". Thanks!

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

heres one that took a 300gr speer plated soft point to the shoulder, he went about two feet and that was straight down.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

Both the Nosler and the Barnes are excellent, of the two, becuase of the HUGE hollow point of the Barnes they would be best for close shots. Just curious, what bullet did you hit the buck with? Chap Gleason

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

thanks for the input...I used a hornady sabot 45-300 gr. XTP MAG. I am new to the whole black powder hunting scene and dearly love it. My gun was given to me from my brother-in-law. It shoots very well...1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. We have a shooting range at our home and I shoot it quite often. There was another reply to my post that states I might have hit bone and had a large fragmentation, this sounds very practical. I wish I knew more about muzzleloaders, but unfortunately I do not. This time next year I will be able to reply to others in search of answers. Until then...its all about learning,(for me anyhow). Thank you all!

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

From your description of the load and the shot I'd guess the bullet either hit the shoulder bone and fragmented or went through the muscle above the spine. The muscle shot should have cause a lot of bleeding, but with the rain????
The 300 grXTPs has killed the only two I ever shot with them, but both of those shots were right into the heart/lung area. I think of the XTP as a "fragmenting" bullet at muzzleloading rifle velocities and place it to avoid anything more than ribs when it comes to bones. For a shoulder shot one of the bonded bullets or an all lead conical would give much better results. I like the Barnes Expander MZ as my #1 choice, but unfortunately not every rifle likes them. The only reason I was using XTPs this year was that the inline I had didn't shoot the Barnes nearly as accurately as the XTP. I hope (if I keep that rifle until next season) to find a sabot that will fit the Barnes better in that bore and give good groups.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

The XTP Mag is a good bullet especially in 300g, however it does fragment loosing it's jacket in high velocity shots, like your's--from what I have read---I have a friend that uses the 240g with good results. I recommend the Barnes MZ, TMZ, Barnes Origonals in 300g in .458 diameter with Orange sabot or Crushed Rib sabot (yep the .452 sabot), also the Barnes XPB in 275g is a good bullet. Randy Wakeman talks about all these on his Web site. Www.RandyWakeman.com.Best wishes onyour bullet choice. Since you said a year from now you will know a lot more, may I suggest some resources:

1) buy a copy of the book "Rifle Bullets for the Hunter: A Definitive Study"

http://www.ramworks.net/estore.html

2) read this article on ML bullet performance:

http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/july03.htm

3) Read articles by folks on "Chuck Hawks Web Site"on bullet performance

4) read things by Bryce Towsley, google that, on bullet performance,

5) Pick out a few good bullets--Nosler, Barnes, Speer Gold Dot--and read all the content on Cabelas and Midway on "Product Reviews". Google Nosler Fragments, Barnes Fragments or Speer Gold Dot Fragments and see what you get. Do the same thing for XTP and Powerbelt.
Chap Gleason

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

i'll still take a powerbelt over a sabot.:D

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

Chap

I would really be careful using RW as a source of anything... He is a paid mouth which has been shown many times over and over. He was even Bannedfrom Modern Muzzleloaders.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

i agree, hes now pretty much saying this new 209 powder is the best and that pellets stink and theres no need for 150grain mag loads.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

Yes, I am aware that he is paid, as is several others, however some info that he has on his web site is useful and informative (I learned a LOT from his Savage site). I basically believe that when you get independent confirmation on a strategy, part or position, that that is the best policy. RW web site is just 1 of the 5 sources I was talking about. I will change it to Churck Hawks since he publishes there, but there are others. Thanks Chap

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

We know, your the resident PB believer--in spite of all the evidence otherwise! Ihave 3 packages left of 15---295g copper HP, I am going to shoot them in my new 21"Green Mountain barrel at 60g of Goex along with Gold Dots and a few others--just at targets, never at an animal. Chap

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

Barnes, Nosler partitions, or Hornady XTPs.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

Chap, Load up 80 grains powder with those 295's sight in, and then take the left overs and save them for hunting season. I guarantee you'd have a successful hunt and you wouldn't have to be tracking your deer for a 100 yards.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

I have to disagree that all deer hit in the boiler room go down right away. About five years ago I shot a buck that ran over 300 yds. I shot him with a 44 mag hand gun using ahot loaded Hornady 300gr XTP. There was a complete pass through and both lungs looked like goo. He left a spurting blood trail,
out both sides, and jumped a fence and ran across at least 300 yds of open field and rolled into a ball just out of thefield. Most go right down, but not all. If there hadn't been some light snow on the ground he would have been very hard to find.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

from what we've been seeing on here lately. The XTP is becoming the Powerbelt of Sabots.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

They fragment, as the pictures of Sabotloader showed with his shots into sand at the "rock pile", not all the time, but enough that they would cause concern. Now the jacket is not alot of weight, but the fact that energy is used shedding the jacket instead of penetrating is the big deal in my opinion. The Gold Dots are better because they are bonded to the jacket and about the same price.
Chap

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

A 300 gr Shockwave Bonded type bullet with 90 grains loose 777 will do it for sure.

RE: 50 cal knockdown power
 

At a fraction of what Powerbelts cost:D