mayguy

I have killed 4 deer with the Barnes 290gr TMZ ( the ones with the plastic tip ) and 3 of them never took a step and the other one stumbled less than 20 yds. These shots ranged from 25 to a little over 50 yds, I used 120grs of 777, out of my Omega.

little-d

sounds like you just hit the brisket, that will leave little to no blood trail and most of the time will knock one down.

spaniel

Sounds like you either a) missed the vitals or b) the bullet hit bone and fragmented explosively on the surface.

I've shot all types of bullets and killed over 100 deer and never had one hit through the lungs or heart go far. The few bad shots sometimes resembled what you described.

Without being too graphic, I've helped track deer than lost half their digestive tract to one or more 12gauge slugs and made it half a mile or more. Devastation doesn't mean much if it isn't the chest, and if you're in the chest the difference between bullets isn't very significant.

I've tried the 300gr Precision Rifle Keith Nose hollowpoint, a hunk of soft lead with a gaping wide hollowpoint. They expand more than the size of a quarter, yet don't put deer down any quicker than a 200gr Shockwave.

grunterhunter6574

the shot was well placed, (by luck) mainly due to the area that was bleeding. He stood up, staggering, then walked off slowly. There was definately an entry wound just to the aft side of the shoulder. Im not an expert hunter....just one with "frequent flyer miles". Thanks!

little-d

heres one that took a 300gr speer plated soft point to the shoulder, he went about two feet and that was straight down.

gleason.chapman

Both the Nosler and the Barnes are excellent, of the two, becuase of the HUGE hollow point of the Barnes they would be best for close shots. Just curious, what bullet did you hit the buck with? Chap Gleason

grunterhunter6574

thanks for the input...I used a hornady sabot 45-300 gr. XTP MAG. I am new to the whole black powder hunting scene and dearly love it. My gun was given to me from my brother-in-law. It shoots very well...1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. We have a shooting range at our home and I shoot it quite often. There was another reply to my post that states I might have hit bone and had a large fragmentation, this sounds very practical. I wish I knew more about muzzleloaders, but unfortunately I do not. This time next year I will be able to reply to others in search of answers. Until then...its all about learning,(for me anyhow). Thank you all!

wabi

From your description of the load and the shot I'd guess the bullet either hit the shoulder bone and fragmented or went through the muscle above the spine. The muscle shot should have cause a lot of bleeding, but with the rain????
The 300 grXTPs has killed the only two I ever shot with them, but both of those shots were right into the heart/lung area. I think of the XTP as a "fragmenting" bullet at muzzleloading rifle velocities and place it to avoid anything more than ribs when it comes to bones. For a shoulder shot one of the bonded bullets or an all lead conical would give much better results. I like the Barnes Expander MZ as my #1 choice, but unfortunately not every rifle likes them. The only reason I was using XTPs this year was that the inline I had didn't shoot the Barnes nearly as accurately as the XTP. I hope (if I keep that rifle until next season) to find a sabot that will fit the Barnes better in that bore and give good groups.

gleason.chapman

The XTP Mag is a good bullet especially in 300g, however it does fragment loosing it's jacket in high velocity shots, like your's--from what I have read---I have a friend that uses the 240g with good results. I recommend the Barnes MZ, TMZ, Barnes Origonals in 300g in .458 diameter with Orange sabot or Crushed Rib sabot (yep the .452 sabot), also the Barnes XPB in 275g is a good bullet. Randy Wakeman talks about all these on his Web site. Www.RandyWakeman.com.Best wishes onyour bullet choice. Since you said a year from now you will know a lot more, may I suggest some resources:

1) buy a copy of the book "Rifle Bullets for the Hunter: A Definitive Study"

http://www.ramworks.net/estore.html

2) read this article on ML bullet performance:

http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/july03.htm

3) Read articles by folks on "Chuck Hawks Web Site"on bullet performance

4) read things by Bryce Towsley, google that, on bullet performance,

5) Pick out a few good bullets--Nosler, Barnes, Speer Gold Dot--and read all the content on Cabelas and Midway on "Product Reviews". Google Nosler Fragments, Barnes Fragments or Speer Gold Dot Fragments and see what you get. Do the same thing for XTP and Powerbelt.
Chap Gleason

frontier gander

i'll still take a powerbelt over a sabot.