Heavy or light?
 

A couple friends of mine have been arguing about bullet wieght in thier muzzleloaders.The first claims heavier bullets are better as they do more damage, the other shoots much lighter bullets and claims they shoot flatter and are more accurate on longer shots.

Personally I shoot about a 250 grain bullet of one type or another in all my guns and never had a problem with either knock down power or accuracy once I found the right load.Theyre going to the other extrems, one shoots bullets over 300 grains, the other Ive seen shoot bullets as light as 165 grains.

What is the average bullet wieght you all use?

RE: Heavy or light?
 

From 250 to 535 grains.

Bullet weight has nothing to do with accuracy.

I prefer down range energy over a flatter trajectory. A good hunter should know his distance, and his rifle. So trajectory should not be a major issue.

I guess that puts me on the side of liking heavier bullets. Tom.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

Actually I guesse Id consider a 250 grain kinda middle of the road bullet wieght.

Im guessing theres more demand for heavier bulets thoughbecause its just about all anyone carries around here, even a 250 grain bullets hard to find after season opens, theyre all 295 grain or higher in the stores around here.

Read that wrong, I thought you said 235 instead of 535, Cant say Ive seen one that heavy

RE: Heavy or light?
 

I meant to say 525 grains. I cast that size bullet for my Knight MK85. It is a devastating bullet. I have shot two elk with this bullet. One was a 5X5, and one was a cow. Neither elk went over 40 yards. Both shots were in the boiler room. One shot was at 135 yards, the other shot was at 50 yards. When the elk were hit by the bullet-they went sick. Tom.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

Bullet trajectory isn't a factor for me as I where I hunt you can't shoot over 75yrds in very many if any places. Therefore I use 300g XTP or a 385 Great Plainsfor deer-unless of course I'm shooting a PRB.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

petasux

It really depends on the type of bullet you are shooting. Conventional traditional ML thinking has always been shoot a bigger bullet-make a bigger hole. This thought was actually correct when shooting soft lead projectiles. Lighter projectiles made from soft lead can blow up when shot into a solid surface such as a major bone. So the way to beat that is to shoot a heavier chunk of lead. When I am required to shoot conicals - I end up shooting a .503/460 grain Bull Shop conical.

On the other hand when I am able to use a modern jacketed bullet, other than a Power Belt, I do drop dowm quite a bit. Several people are having great succes with the Hornady 10mm/200 grain XTP, SST, or Shockwave. They are a tremendous bullet shot with a very high velocity offering "big lead" bullet energies. I personally shoot a Nosler .451/260 grain bullet for deer and a .458/300 grain Nosler Partition for elk. Both of these bullets offer controlled expansion to a given point - then they continue to drive and penetrate through the animal.

So for me it depends! Big lead in a conical - much lighter weight in a jacketed bullet.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

petasux...They also need to consider bullet construction...That has as much to do with penetration as bullet weight....

I don't agree with heavier bullets doing more damage, IF they are both constructed the same...Damage comes from the bullet mushrooming...Faster bullets will actually mushroom faster...If you are using the same powder charge and the deer are hit at the same range, the lighter, faster bullet will upset or mushroom faster....Now if it looses some mass passing through the deer, it might not have the mass for a complete pass through, this is where the construction comes into play...

While considering construction you also need to look at the tip....As a general rule, hollow points will mushroom easier than a sharper pointed bullet....

I prefer the 250 range weight for deer, but I can have 150 yard shots as well...A 300 gr bullet will not fly as flat as a 250, everything else being equal...

What bullets are they using?? What do you prefer???

RE: Heavy or light?
 

use a 225 powerbelt in my .45 for deer. My great plains rifle is .54cal and shoots i believe a 228 grain roundball and that will be for deer and elk.

Just depends on what you like to use and what you feel comfortable with.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

I shoot .357 cal 175gr dead center. Flatest bullet-Our shots are over open fields 100-150yrds. Still working on pushing it to 200 but don't feel confident yet. Have killed and found every doe (about 10 all chest shots) but they run 100-200. Sometimes bullet is against the far skin. Wind is a big factor. Check ballistice - wind drift - and that will determine which bullet is best for you situaton. 150 yards is 5-10" drift for most bullets with a 10mhp crosswind and we don't get many calm December days here in southern Michigan.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

I've used bullets ranging from 250 gr. up to 410 gr. I personally like them a little on the larger size. The best terminal performance I've gotten out of any bullet was with a 410 gr. flat point conical.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

No single answer here.

I would also say it depends on the type of game and the terrain you are hunting and the type of ML you are carrying. I try to match the ML/load to the type of hunt I plan on doing.

For traditional ML's a PRB is what I hunt with ora conical of various weights in my sidelocks with 1:48" rifling or faster. Slower rifling ML's are PRB only.

For 50cal inlines anywhere from 240gr on up to 500gr. Saboted or conical.

For example if I am hunting largergame inshort range,heavy cover or brush then I would rather shoot a heavier projectile so to minimize deflection if you shoot through and hit a twig or something.

If I had to pick one bullet weight as my do everything load for inlines it would be a 300gr saboted projectile. Likely a 300gr SST or the like, which is not the absolute best accurate for me but would be viable for large game such as elk on up along with med game such as deer.

For sidelocks then I would stick with the tried and proven PRB as my do everything pick one load and carry a larger caliber ML for larger game.

Really comes down to a combination of the type of hunt, intended game and what proves to be the most accurate load.

M2C,

Tahquamenon

RE: Heavy or light?
 

Might as well add a bit to this discussion. There is no such thing as a perfect bullet for all circumstances or all guns. Those who live where its thick and can only see 50 yds when they are lucky and those who live on the great plains and need to be able to shoot as far as they can accurately dont need to agree they need different things.
Where I lve I can run into both sets of circumstances and I also travel to hunt so I may need to consider that, then you also have to consider what the gun will hold a minute of angle with if you are going to take 200yd shots.
My solution is first to find what the gun likes and that includs sabots I find them MORE important to minute of angle accuracy than the bullet also to find the bullets and loads that will hold that accuracy consistantly.
What I ended up with on the new Triumph so far is
200gr SW with 110gr 777-FF win 209 S Works good at all ranges for all game
250 gr Gold Dot with 110gr 777-FF 209 win S Deer load for bang flop
300gr Gold Dot with 120 gr 777- FF 209SFor Elk and larger game
The one thing I would point out here is that a 200gr 40 cal bullet has both high SD179 and high BC .269 and gives the advantage of being light and fast to go with it. Shooting a heavy bullet in itself gives only SD the 40 cal 200gr bullet has around the same SD as a 320 gr bullet so as long as it holds together it gets excellant penatration and when it comes to flat shooting 3 "high at 100yds and 4"low at 200yds is what I get.
Have fun Lee

RE: Heavy or light?
 

I gotta say, niether issues a major concern of mine.I like to get in close, 99% of the deer I shoot will be under 30 yrds away, Ive killed a total of 3 deer in 7 years of using an inline that were over 100 yrds away.I also bowhunt about 3 months of the year mostly from ground level and kind of got inthe habit of getting in as close as humanly possible before taking a shot.Im not saying anything bad about longer shots, I regularly practice at much longer distances just in case the need for such a shot comes up.At that range I seldom have issues with energy or trajectory so I find the bickering kind of amusing.

The one shooting the heavier bullet I believe shoots a powerbelt, Im not really sure what grain it is, I know he didnt buy the 295 grain ones on sale becuase they were to light.

The others shooting a 165 grain hornady with a sabot.Theyre hollow points

With my knight Im shooting a 245 grain Shockwave and about 80 grains of powder.

My CVa Ive started shooting Nosler trophy grade in 250 grain and about 90 grains of powder.

Its what Ive found to group best in these guns, as far as damageI cant see much difference at the ranges Im shooting.

Just remembered, when I first started this I shot sidelocks and Pyrodex powder, cant remember what grain they were but I was using a very heavy Buffalo Bullet, they consistantly left and exit hole you could almost put your hand in:D

RE: Heavy or light?
 

I agree with larger grain for larger animals and even larger for closer shots in a apples to apples comparison but thereasoningyou have included I do not. Deflection can result on any projectile regardless of its size, no bush beater's...it's a "MYTH".

I have used 200 to 460gr bullets for huntingand all worked. Last number of yearsI seem to be stuck on saboted copper jacket bulletsout of my inlines -250gr for deer sized and 300gr for larger. Just adjust the load by way of tweakingpowder/charge, sabot and projectile to meet the requirements of the situation. Accuracy and predictability(repeatability) are myprimary goals. I will gladly give up FPS for smaller groups at all the ranges I will be shooting...if I can't get them both;). Istopped chasing speed and use my chronoin thelatter stages of load development.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

Avg Weight 300g. I like 300g since they shoot thru deer, 250g and lighter don't. Throw a ping pong ball into a snow bank and a golf ball, which penetrates deeper into the snow bank, they heavier ball, same with bullets. It is basically a trajectory and range question, most people that shoot long ---shoot lighter bullets to get the range, but they really don't have to. I believe if you know your bullet and know your gun, you can shoot 200 yards with a 300g bullet, by sighting in 3.5" high a 100, and out to about 175 you will be in kill zone. I believe 200 yards is maximum range for a scoped ML, as least for me. Definitely more weight is better. Chuck Adams shoot heavier arrows, why? better penetration, same for bullets. It is#1. accuracy, #2 penetration, #3 expansion, #4 shoot thru.
Chap Gleason

RE: Heavy or light?
 

Not going to split hairs but I never said a larger heavier projectile would eliminate deflection, but it can minimize it. Not such a myth.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

for deer,in the 50 cal inlines i use 45cal .451 230 gr xtp hp and 300gr speer plated soft points. both rounds are matched with the black mmp sabot. sometimes thextp hp stays in them/blows up if you hit backbone or goes on through. the 300gr bullets just smash a good hole all the way through no matter where you hit. if i could learn to keep up with the 300gr softpoint from point blank to 250yards i would use it all the time but i can't. so i use the one that i can keep up with. for hogs i use the 300gr or bigger and make short shots. next week i will be hunting the swamp area and all my shots will be under 100yds so i will use a 300 gr bullet and push it with 140grs of t7, i saw a good boar there and if i get the shot i don't want to try tracking him into that swamp.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

I find it interesting how many people think theres such a big difference in the trajectories of a 250 and 300 grain bullet. In comparing a 250 and 300 Shockwave shooting 130gr of pellets there is only about 1.5" difference in them at 200 yards, around 2" at 250 yards. That works out to about 8 yards difference in 6" point blank range, 194 vs 186. The 300 has a better BC and retains velocity and energy longer even though it is close to 150fps slower. With this load at 200 aim a few inches high, at 225 put crosshair on the back, 250 a couple of inches above the back. With either one you'll be in the kill zone.

At 100 grains of powder theyare closerwith the 300 down about .75"more at 200 and 1" moreat 250. 6"PBR's are 176/250 and 173/300. Not enough to worry about.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

dmurphy317, thats true,but the difference to me is in design the 250gr like XTP and Gold Dot are designed to open fast for light animals like deer sized and the 300gr especally the Gold Dot and SW are designed to open slowly and penatrate deep like for a moose or buffalo. I have not had any penatration problems I shoot through the boiler room as some people like to term it and not the shoulder. If I tended to shoot the shoulder I would use 300gr for deer to. Lee

RE: Heavy or light?
 

When i was shooting the hornady great plains out of my X-150, i was shocked when i read on the bullet info that the 410 grainer shots FLATTER than the 385 grain conical.
With my .45 i like the lighter weight powerbelts due to less recoil.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

dmurphy317 lemoyne

for my 2 cents I agree with both of you.... I shoot the lighter bullet for deer because I am more convinced it will open and do it's job on a thin skinned-thin bodied whitetail. I do then switch to a 300 grain for elk and/or larger thick skinned bigger bodied animals. The 300 grain bullet is a stronger bullet with a thicker copper jacket. The only place I see the difference being critical is at close range... shots taken from 25 to 60 yards. It has been my experiance that a 300 grain Nosler partition will get in and out of a deer at these close ranges with out doing maximum damage. One other point is that I really do not expect to make long range shots on deer - especialy deer so I am unconcerned about 200 yard velocity or energy which the as murph has indicated the 300 grain will carry more out further.

Several years back i shot a really nice whitetail buck @ 15 yards with a .451/300 grain Nosler - that bullet was in and out of that animal so fast it really just put to nice neat holes in the deer - the lungs were gone but the animal managed to run a couple hundred yard downhill away from me. In my mind a 250/260 grain would have entered and done more damage as it expanded...

Chap, has shot deer at close range with the Speer 300 grain Gold Dot and said it performed well - so maybe the Gold Dot or even the XTP would would fine... I am not sure...

again just my 2 cents....

RE: Heavy or light?
 

For my .50s I like anywhere fron 250 to 350 grain bullets whether sabot or conical. The rifle makes the final decision for me on which one by it's accuracy. Some rifles like the lighter end, some the heavier, but most .50s I've owned will shoot something in that range accurately. Most of my deer have been killed with 300 grain Barnes or XTPs. All but one have been the "bang-flop" result and the one that travelled went about 30 yards. Put a good bullet in the heart/lung area ant the blood trail will be short. ;)

RE: Heavy or light?
 

Just a clarification on my previous comments. I'm not endorsing one size over the other but just pointing out there's almost no difference in the trajectory out to at least 150 yards and further. So pick the one that shoots the most accurate and will do the job on whatever your hunting and don't worry about the trajectory until it gets beyond the point blank range your set up for. Beyond that just be aware of the drop and it's not that hard to compensate out to 200 or so yards if you know the range.

For me I shoot both plus I'm liking the 200SW more and more. It carries similar energy to the 300SW due to it's higher BC when launched with similar powder levels and gives me about a218 yard 6" PBR with 130 grains of pellets. I also like shooting the heavy 460's in my gun and with a 6" PBR of 148 yards it's only down about 15" at 200 which is fairly easy to compensate for. That load still has 1000+ fp energy out to 375 yards, longer at higher altitudes.

RE: Heavy or light?
 

dmurphy317

Perfect... points right on