Pass Thru???
 

I've been hunting with the PowerBelt 295 grain 50 cal bullets with 100 grains of Pyrodex pellet powder. My CVA Eclipse shoots these bullets really well. I've killed around 10 deer with this set up and never had a pass thru. I shot a deer about 5 yards away last week and never found any blood, but did find him about 80 yds away. Should I keep shooting these or try to find a bullet that would give more of a chance of a Pass thru. Like I said I've been really sucessful with the powerbelts, but am afraid it will bite me one day.

Chad

RE: Pass Thru???
 

TO much powder.

Heres a link to help you bleed them out like stuffed pigs.
http://huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?...86&mpage=1

RE: Pass Thru???
 

Within 125 yards, try a 250 or 300 Barnes MZ...

For longer work, say 150-160 yards, try a 250 SST/Shockwave...

You will have passthroughs....

RE: Pass Thru???
 

Its a shame that you have an accurate load and the only way to get better performance is possibly lower the powder charge so the bullet has a chance to do its thing. I would keep with what you have for now, and start looking for a different bullet that will give you the results you want.

Look and try some Speer HP Gold Dots in 250 grain, Nosler Partition 260 grain, T/C shockwaves in 200 grain, 300 grain Hornady XTP, or some conicals like Great Plains, or Bull Shop conicals. If you can work up one of them, they might give you the pass through you're looking for or at least some major organ damage which would plant the deer a little faster.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

DukhuntChad

If you are looking for a pss through you may be shooting the wrong bullet... A Power Belt really is nothing more that a elongated round ball. It is made of a very soft lead so that it will obterate to your barrel. On contact it will usually do two things 1. blow up or 2 flatten out to a very big piece of lead. So it chances of passing through are very slim.

There are two schools of thought here...

1. Some people want all the energy of the projectile expended in the animal, and pass throughs are really a waste of energy.... It is a good theory and often works...

2. The other thought is that 'penetration' and cutting of organs is the key along with the hydrostatic damage that occurs as the bullet passes through the animal. If the bullet works properly you will get blood pumping out of both the enterance and the exit holes.

If you like shooting the easy loading PB then you really need to slow it down or Hornady is coming out with a new bullet that loads like a PB but according to the company penetrates far better. It is to expensive for me and the jury is still out on its operation. You can look here and form some of your own opinions.

http://www.hornady.com/media/2008catalog/Page_0043.pdf

Personally I will continue to use Nosler Partitions as long as I can afford them, and when I can not I will switch to Speer Gold Dots either the 250 grain for whitetail or the 300 grain for both deer and elk..

RE: Pass Thru???
 

Powerbelts only "blow up" If you push them to fast and hit SOLID bone.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

In my opinion if the bullet does not pass through the deer than that means the deer is absorbing all of the hydrostatic shock of the bullet. If it's not broke don't fix it.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

Agree on the 250 or 300 Barnes MZ, for longer range work (out to 200 yards with 3.5" high sight in at 100 yards) you can use a Barnes Origonal 45/70 bullet 300g in an MMP Orange sabot OR a black crushed rib or you can use a Barnes TMZ with supplied sabot or a BONDED SW all will give pass thru performance and mostly boom flops, also try high shoulder shots at close range with these bullets, no more tracking, 2 holes, 2x expansion, massive internal wound channel. So short range high shoulder, long range boiler room behind front shoulder.

Opinion on PB, shoot them as Frontier Gander recommends or dump them, I dumped them after several hits and no recover, for information on PBs (the negative, you can hear lots of positive):
http://www.the-gleasons.com/powerbelt_page.htm

Now do yourself a favor and do a google search for "Powbelt Fragments" or "Nosler Partition Fragments" or "Barnes MZ Fragments". You find very little for Nosler fragments or Barnes Fragments, but you see a lot of PB fragments. Also read the product review page of Cabelas and MidWay for the PB, listen to the whole story. You will find a lot of people experience what you did. I got the buck or doe, but no blood trail and the bullet fragmented, especially on close shot. Check it out, then make your decision based on logic, facts and not emotion or hype. I think they are a >>great<< bullet in a FlintLock with 60 to 80g of goex and sight in wiht open sights at 50 yards, the key is to keep them below 1400 fps, then you get "devistating performance" as advertised. Just 1 opinion, but I have "been there done that and I AIN'T going back".

Chap Gleason

RE: Pass Thru???
 

They also blow up on "non solid" bone like ribs. You MUST see a pattern here FG, ask yourself this question. "What is the most talked about bullet for poor bullet performance"? It is the PB, hands down. You NEVER hear anything about the Nosler Partition or the Barnes or the Gold Dot, but the PB that is a different story. Best Wishes, Chap

RE: Pass Thru???
 

I'd either drop your charge or try a different bullet.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

You never mentioned if you were using the lead or copper-clad. You never mentioned if they were hollow-points or aero-tips. Lead bullets fragment alot more. Hollow-points decrease odds of pass-thrus -versus those ofaero-tips. Regular Powerbelts perform best using around 80 gr. of powder. Using more can sometimes lead to a heavier nose during flight - or increased fragmentation, plastic base not properly withstanding the added pressures.... among other things.

Alot of times, no blood trail signals shooting a tad too high - letting blood fill the deer's innercavities. All of the alternative bullets mentioned here are very good performers -- generally decreasethe amount ofyards a deer may run after being hit. There is no formula-guaranteefor pass-thrus - using any combination of bullet, powder, distanceor aim. There's no evidence thatpass-thrus improve harvestations.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

Not true chap. If you're using 150 grains powder with a powerbelt, they'll do fine if your target it 130-140+ yards away. Ive done that a few times and dropped them. They just dont perform to good on these 30-50 yard range shots. Who in their right mind would even think of needing 150 grain loads for that distance? lol. Like i said, 80 grains of powder with any powerbelt is going to drop them well within easy tracking range.
You have all seen what my 80 grain charge and 225 grain aerotip powerbelt does on deer. I'll take them over anything else out there.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

frontier ganderI notice several of the people that have good luck with PB's are shooting 45cal, is that what you are using?

RE: Pass Thru???
 

Yes i am shooting a deer creek northwest rifle in .45cal After selling all of my inlines, this is the only rifle i have right now with a twist that can shoot powerbelts. Im using 80 grains pyrodex p with a Copper series 225 grain aerotip powerbelt. Makes nice big holes, bloody blood trails. Next up is the 223 grain powerbelt platinum to try out.

My dad and brother use the 295s in their 50's with 90 grains RS. No trouble with them at all.

This is my .45 and the deer i got in September.


Had to follow this long 5 yard blood trail and a long 20-30 foot skid mark that was smeared with blood,

entrance,

Exit,


With the lower powder charges that i use, they bust through bone and keep goin.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

He is not using 150 - using 100gr Pyro.

Gleason - good info!

Steve

RE: Pass Thru???
 

100 grains grains, 5 yard shot = 80 yard tracking job, no blood, Or My way, 80 grains pyro, 80 yard shot, 5 yard tracking job with massive blood trail.

Hes wanting pass through. IMO all pass through does is put all the bullets energy into the dirt.

If his bullet goes completely through the body cavity and then is found under the hide, He got pass through.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

FG, I respectfully disagree, if the bullet passes through it isnt dumping all the bullets energy into the dirt, alot is put into the deer. I dont agree with the statement you made about the bullet being stuck under the hide on the opposite side being a passthrough, true it passed through the body cavity but did not completely pass through the animal. The idea of a pass through( to me and we all have a different opinion ) is ALL the way through. If the animal is close and you shoot them high it sometimes takes longer for it to start bleeding due to the high entrance, however if there is a lower exit the blood trail will be alot easier to follow. In a perfect world every deer we shoot would just drop dead or take a step and fall dead but thats not the case. Lots of times deer will run, even with a bullet that didnt pass completely through. I like a bullet that will do some damage to the deer and pass through. Just because a bullet goes through a deer dont mean it didnt deliver any energy to the animal. If using the right bullet it will deliver enough energy to damage the internal organs then exit leaving a good blood trail. I shot one with my 30-06 this year that didnt leave and exit hole, the blood was few and far between, luckily he didnt run over 30 yards. The deer and hog I killed with shockwaves left blood trailsa blind mancould have followed and they both died within 30 yards both had pass throughs.

As we all know with a ML, when you shoot most of the time you cant see anything, you cant tell how the animal reacted to the shot like you can with a modern rifle. It really pays to have a bullet exit for a good blood trail and to bleed the animal out quicker. If the bullet stays in the animal you only have one hole instead of 2.Usually depending on range, the entrance will be high resulting in poor to no blood trail. Theses bullets are big enough that if you poke a hole through both sides of the deer and the internal organs (lungs) you have a heavy blood trail and lots of blood. if you do your part most any bullet through the lungs will kill a deer, but wouldnt you rather one that will pass through making your tracking job alot easier? Again FG, no disrepsect You are a man of far more knowledge than I, just my opinion thats all..

RE: Pass Thru???
 

That is NOT the traditional meaning of pass thru. As for putting energy in the dirt,
is it better for a bullet to loose all it's energy inside the deer, or for it to enter the deer, expand and travel the entire chest cavity, blow thru a rib, the hide and then exit"? Which is best? A bullet not traveling has completed it work, it no longer has any killing power. Pretty obvious that it is the bullet that passes thru has done more "bullet work" (dismembering flesh, organs, etc) than the one that stopped in the cavity of an animal. Chap Gleason

RE: Pass Thru???
 

next time someone on here shoots a deer and gets pass through, take a pic of the double blood trail for me. Ive yet to see this even when shooting a centerfire. You dont need complete pass though to get a good blood trail. You can hit a deer right through the middle and not get much blood if any at all.

I know the deer i shot was bleeding like a SOB out of the entrance hole and then spraying blood all over from its nose.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

I believe different scenarios offer different results. I have seen the double blood trails, and the side with the most blood is the exit side.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

Here ya go. Pass through w/300g XTP MAG. You can see two distinct trails. I believe in pass throughs. I want it to break bones on the way in and out and I want blood runnin' out both sides of the deer/bear whatever.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

interesting, But how do you know which blood trail to follow?

How far that one go?

RE: Pass Thru???
 

It looked like railroad tracks to the deer, wasn't hard to follow. That being said, she only went about 20-25 yrds.

RE: Pass Thru???
 

FG

I will have to dig to find the pic but that buck I shot earlier in the season was bleeding from both sides. Blood and tissue from the destroyed lungs were being forced out of both side of his body with each step (actually leap)he took. This pumping continued until he collapsed some 30 yards away.

The bullet did pass thru - completely thru the body - that is what I call a pass through... If it is caught under the skin it did not pass through.

Then this question of yours to TNHagies - really has me.....

Now think about that question a little bit.... It is not like both blood trails go in diferent directions - surely you did not mean that??? They are from the same animal! going to the same place! who cares which one you follow!

RE: Pass Thru???
 

:D i was yankin his chain on that of course.