Blood Trails
 

It seems funny but after taking qver a hundred deer with a bow and all most never having any problem following one of them I relized that the placment of the shot may well have something to do with how good a blood trail is. I dont seem to have any problem with a gun either but because aiming for the same spot I do with a bow I mostly get bang flops the few that did not go down right away usually dont go 40 yds.
I hear people talking about high shoulder shots and shoulder shots and neck shots and I wonder how many deer are lost because of where people are aiming rather than the bullet ect.
Your thoughts on the matter? Lee

RE: Blood Trails
 

I was taught by my Pop when he would take me hunting as a lad in Alaska, ( late 1960s )that all shots should be placed in the boiler room, except foxes and wolves. Shoot them in the head. The pelts were too valuable to mess up with a bullet hole.
Oh yeah, shoot rabbits in the head, too, so as to not lose any meat.

RE: Blood Trails
 

For some reason hunter's think there is some sort of "GLORY" if they shoot a deer in the neck or head. I do not know why but they carry it as a badge of honor. Personally I will rarely take that shot, but I will admit that I have taken them a few times. I think it goes back toVarmint Hunter's, and Small Game Hunter's.

I am a handicapped hunter so it is important that I put the deer down fast. My favorite shot is when the leg on my side is forward, or the deer is slightly angled away. I put the bullet behind the shoulder and into the off side shoulder. This shot normally breaks the deer down right there. A 40 or 50 yard run can cause me a lot of problems, so I like to put them down fast. The shot I described is IMO the fastest, and most sure way to do it.

I do not think people realize how much of the neck, and yes even the head area is not an instantly killing shot.

I do not wish to argue with the occasional guy who can make that shot every time(or he will pass that shot). Heck I consider myself capable of making the shot every time. It is just that I think there is a right way and a wrong way. And yes you are right-your way is the right way.

I know I get a little meat damage. But I prefer the neck roast to the meat on the offside shoulder. Tom.

RE: Blood Trails
 

When I shoot deer I have to stop them where they stand because of if not they will move into the thicket and it makes retrieval a real chore. The scapula will break them down, so will the neck & spineshots. Neck & spineshots are too risky in many cases and I only use them as a last resort kind of shot. If you break the shoulders they will normally plant right there, although you can loose a lot of meat. I will break them down if necessary, but a good boiler room shot is sure hard to beat. Also with a muzzleloader, the animals do not seem to spook as bad as they do with a center fire rifle.

RE: Blood Trails
 

A largepart of our hunting ispine plantation that was clear cut five or six years ago. The young trees are thick as hair on a coyote and mixed with briar. We have a bunch of small food plots in the middle of this stuff. If a deer gets even forty or fifty yards into that jungle you're in for a miserable retrieval job. Finding it is tough -trying to drag it out is even tougher. I must confess to using neck shots when I hunt this area - but I'm very choosy about the shot and will pass on any nervous deer or anything over 50 yards or so. In those areas where tracking conditions are more reasonable it's heart/lung for sure.

RE: Blood Trails
 

I do most of my hunting with a bow and find myself still trying for the perfect "boiler room" shot even with a muzzleloader. The muzzleloader adds the option of a "quartering toward" shot (which I took this season and had the old bang-flop result) but I still go for the heart - lungs. In the past 8 or 10 years (averaging 1 a year)using a .50 with Barnes or XTP bullets I've had one deer go less than 30 yards. The rest dropped on the spot!
About allof the deer with the bow go less than 60 yards with a good double lung shot, many much less. I believe my shortest recovery with the bow was 18 yards on a double lung shot.

RE: Blood Trails
 

I think I'm in the majority that take heart/lungs shots. I try to hit in the lower 1/3 of the chest tucked right behind the shoulder. That shot has never led me on a track longer than 40-50yrds that I can think of.

My dad on the other hand only had 1 leg so he wasn't able to track deer like a guy "w/two good legs" like he would say, so he would always break their neck right where the neck joins the body. I only remember him losing one deer and I think he hit somehting between him and the deer and who knows where it hit the deer. I only use this shot if it is the only option.

I agree though lemoyneI think too many lost deer are blamed on bullets rather than shot placement or range. I've talked to some people that think 'with a bullet as big as .50 if you hit 'em anywhere they should go down'.

RE: Blood Trails
 

I have always shot right behind the shoulder, bout midways up. I do this with my bow, my ML and my rifle. With my rifle I will shoot in front of the shoulder like in the base of the neck if I need arrises, but never in the skinny part of the neck. But my favorite shot is broadside right behind the shoulder, I like to hug the shoulder as much as possible. If their leg is straight down I will aim about5-6 inches straight above their elbow joint. You should be able to find them within 40 - 50 yards with a great blood trail. Some of the smaller deer just drop with my rifle when shot there. i will take angle towards shots but only with my rifle, and depending on my circumstances with my ML too. With the bow its angle away or broadside thats it.

RE: Blood Trails
 

It sounds like most of us try to place our shots between the top of the heart and the middle of the lung onthe center line of the heart. I have been amazed at how many I have dropped on the spot with that shot since I started using fast opening bullets like the 250 GD, There is no dought that these guns are accurate enough to make carefully placed spine or brain shots at short range and that if you are willing to shoot through the shoulder it will drop them especally with a big heavy bullet. I think we all have different circumstances and have to adapt to them. Like if you can not see over 50 yds seting up for long range shot wont do a thing for your hunting. I moved
from the open cornfield of IL to the hills and lakes of AR and the differances are quite interesting, I did not take a deer the first year down here because they all looked like fawns to me. Lee

RE: Blood Trails
 

Bow - Through the middle of the lungs. I shot a 10-pt straight thru the heart once and he ran 200+ yds without a drop of blood, I only found with with some luck intuition.

Gun - Heart shot if 50yds or under. Otherwise, middle of the lungs behind the front leg. I avoid the shoulder unless dropping them in their tracks vs 50 yds away is important; too much meat to ruin in the shoulder.

RE: Blood Trails
 

Like most problems in life, we'd like to think there's a single or at least primary culprit for "lost and wounded deer". Blaming the bullet is an easy way out. Not too hard on the shooter. I'd probably go with a top 3 reasons as:

1) lack of understanding
2) poor execution
3) poor shot selection

"Lack of understanding" likely leads the pack because knowledge not acquired through experience is frequently incomplete or misapplied and explains a wide variety of causes. A new ML hunter watching a "pro hunter" take a pronghorn @ 200 yards on OLN tries a long shot he's never practiced and hits but loses a deer. A ML hunter looking for an easier loading bullet finds that Powerbelts satisfy the need and shoot accurately but loads 3 - 50 grain pellets because the literature he got with his gun says it will handle "magnum" loads. Bullet fragments; lost deer. Hunter takes 75 yard shot from tree stand over thick understory, deer runs away; hunter thinks he missed and never goes to look or goes to look and never gets to where the deer stood when the shot was taken. Thinks he missed, deer lost.

Poor execution is simple lack of practice or buck/doe fever. The two are intertwined and if the latter precedes the former can become difficult to reverse or overcome.

Poor shot selection generally involes both of the above as the hunter over estimates the killing power of his bullet or underestimates the resilience of flesh and bone (lack of understanding) but only after the approaching animal has stopped and the hunter believes the opportunity is about to be gone so takes a frontal shot. No exit hole and deer is lost.

The great thing about forums, and this one in particular, is the ability to learn from others who have gained their knowledge through experience and present comprehensive explanations by the conversational nature of a forum. It's a special place.

My 2 cents...

RE: Blood Trails
 

good post yeoman. very true.

RE: Blood Trails
 

with probally about 20 minutes before the end of shotgun season i had a group of does come out of some thicket with a buck after them i tried multiple times to stop him with no success and i hadnt got a deer yet so i did what i probally shouldnt and took a shot on him while he was running i tried to lead him a little but still i knew i shot him way to far back, anways he darted back into some really thick thicket and down a very steep hill, my buddys kept telling me to forget iti would never find it but i couldnt give up on him, there was so much blood i was for sure i was going to walk up on him at any time,one of the best blood trails i had followed, needless to say it took me 4 hrs to find him by then it was pitch black out and all the others were back at the cabin laughn at me, i hit him in the guts and he bled like no other i have shot yet he lived twice as long as any others i have shot

RE: Blood Trails
 

I admire your ethics lukehunter. Shame on your buddies. In our hunting group, when one guy has a situation like that we all keep looking until the shooter himself decides to call it off. We've lost a few, but not many.

RE: Blood Trails
 

I agree, any wounded animal deserves following up. I shot a buck one archery season early in the morning a few years ago. High and a bit back. I was sure I nicked the liver. The blood trail was spotty at best. I waited about 4 hours before starting to trail. I kept loosing the trail then finding it all day til dark.
The next day I recruitted my hunting buddy and we spent the next morning, me following the sparse trail and him walking the ridge. We found that deer after a total of about 8 or 9 hours of tracking through all kinds of brush.
It sure is nice to have dedicated hunting buddies that are willing to spend their time helping you find a wounded animal.

RE: Blood Trails
 

How many of you believe high hits [which usually bled inside the body instead of out side ] cause some lost deer? Lee

RE: Blood Trails
 

I agree 100%. I think what happens is that a hunter makes that shot, they look for blood maybe even 50-60 yards and do not find any blood and assumes that they missed. Meanwhile about 20yrds later the chest cavity fills up and THEN they begin to drop blood.

I had this happen when I was about 11-13yrs old and I was all bummed because I couldn't find blood or hair and my dad went down over the side of the ridge about 70-80 yrds and then found blood. 20yrds later he was pilled up.

RE: Blood Trails
 

"Like most problems in life, we'd like to think there's a single or at least primary culprit for "lost and wounded deer". Blaming the bullet is an easy way out. Not too hard on the shooter. I'd probably go with a top 3 reasons as:

1) lack of understanding
2) poor execution
3) poor shot selection"

Yep, there is the never ending search for the magic bullet that will turn a gut shot into a bang flop 100 percent of the time.

"How many of you believe high hits [which usually bled inside the body instead of out side ] cause some lost deer? Lee"

This is a fact. Followed uptwo wounded bucks this past season for folks who shot them too high. Fortunately, we recovered them both.

RE: Blood Trails
 

Clearly "some" lost deer and probably a significant number. On what should be "gimme" broadside shots, the tendancy of the shooter to anticipate recoil causes POI to be higher than POA and you get the high hit. It is probably an argument for moving the POA of a firearm farther forward than that of a bow, directly over the hinge at the elbow. A high hit breaking the scalpula and perhaps affecting the spine at the point where it is rising to form the backbone is better than finding "no man's land" farther aft. This is not an archery option, but is with a firearm, particularly with a heavy bullet.

RE: Blood Trails
 

yeoman

Which makes remember i statement i read the other day - which we all might want to practice...

Don't shoot the deer!

Shoot a spot on the deer!

RE: Blood Trails
 

Very true SL. I found this season that with open sights at the target range, sub 4" groups at 100 yds. is not a big deal. However, while watching deer during the season I frequently positioned the gun as though I might take the shot. Finding a "spot" on a deer at even 75 yds. in low light, when I see 90% of my deer, is more than a notion with open sights. I may try putting up one of those cardboard deer targets and see if the range will let me stay after sundown a few times just to see if my brain can pick a "spot" in low light.

RE: Blood Trails
 

I cringe everytime I hear someone telling a story about deer hunting and they say, I looked through the scope and all I could see was brown so I pulled the trigger... with a big satisfied grin on their face. What that tells me is the person had no idea where he was aiming on that animal. Granted because of the scope issue he might have been close to the deer, but by no means was he in a position to shoot the deer.

There are lots of factors that go into harvesting and recovery of a deer. If we do our part right, we make it look simple. If not, we are in for a long day and sometimes night, in the woods.

I discovered by accident that I owned a secret weapon in finding wounded deer. I was out grouse hunting one day with my black labrador when I came across some bow hunters that had been trying to find a HUGE buck for over a day. They showed me the blood trail and as I was looking at the trail my dog walked up, sniffed the spot and stared me right in the eye. So I told him to go get it. Just a few minutes later the dog was standing over that HUGE buck. It weighed 235 pounds gutted. The person's right through the heart shot with his bow was a little farther back, through the liver.

RE: Blood Trails
 

"However, while watching deer during the season I frequently positioned the gun as though I might take the shot. Finding a "spot" on a deer at even 75 yds. in low light, when I see 90% of my deer, is more than a notion with open sights. I may try putting up one of those cardboard deer targets and see if the range will let me stay after sundown a few times just to see if my brain can pick a "spot" in low light."

This is the very best training there is. If your state permits it, put a good low light scope on your gun. Pretty often i will put a fist sized rock out,walk off 50 paces and take a shot at it in the low evening light. itrack a lot of deer in the scope, even the running ones. Sometimes one is picked out ofa herd and watched until itprovides an imaginarybroadside or quartering away shot. It has come to the point that the gun just comes up,without conscious thought the scopecrosshairs are in the right place, and the gun goes bang: Flop.