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Phathead 12-28-2007 09:54 AM

Spanish vs American
Ifound a website with articles about the Spanish barrels on CVA, Winchester, Traditions, and their inferior quality.I took note of the articles dates 02-04 and such. More research brought me here and found a few threads about the site and topic and still confused.

Background: 38 and picked back up deer hunting 3 yrs ago. Very anal about spending money on gear. Bow took 2 months to buy and set up through research.

I received almost $400 in gift cards to BassPro by request for Christmas for the sole purpose of a ML. I want to spend it wisely and extend my hunting season. I want Quality- accuracy, ease of use, cleaning, etc. I don't want to waste money on a name that isn't better or save money and have an inferior or dangerous gun.

Thompson Triumph with a little extra and save for scope.
CVA and get complete set up.
Knight rolling block same as Thompson.
open to others.

Any help would be great! Site seems to be great, even arguments are civil which is unusual when opinions are involved.

Nolehoe 12-28-2007 10:00 AM

RE: Spanish vs American
I would go with either the T/C or Knight out of those options and Iwould be happy with either one. go handle them and see which one feels the best to you.

cayugad 12-28-2007 11:17 AM

RE: Spanish vs American
The Knight Rolling Block has got some excellent reviews. Also its hard to beat an Omega. The Triumph has also been getting some real good range reports. If you want to invest in a high quality rifle, then I too would suggest the Knight or Thompson Center lines.

Although there are a lot of Optima, Kodiak, Winchester, Wolf, and Pursuit Pro shooters that swear by their rifles and the quality of them. But you are back to the Spanish barrels that you are not comfortable with. I can understand your position, although like I said.. there are a lot of satisfied BPI/CVA owners out there.

TimberCreek 12-28-2007 11:52 AM

RE: Spanish vs American
If you are going to make statements based on some article you read at least post the link to the article otherwise it is just your opinion. There is an article on Chuck Hawks site but it does not come right out and say the barrels are inferior. It just states there has not been any testing done by american companies.

wabi 12-28-2007 12:22 PM

RE: Spanish vs American
To be honest I have always been partial to T/C, but my views are changing. No doubt Knight is a good brand, but CVA seems to be a very good shooter in most cases and a lot less expensive.
If I were going to buy a new muzzleloader today I'd be very tempted to get a CVA Wolf! From what I've seen & heard they are great performers at an unbelievable low price! Handled one when they first hit the market and wasn't impressed with fit & finish, but I handled one last week and WAS impressed! Very good fit (tight lockup with no play between the barrel & receiver) and a great trigger pull. I wouldn't be planning on shooting 150gr charges anyway, and with 100gr charges I wouldn't have any fears of the barrel not being strong enough to stand it.
I think a lot of the negative comments come from people who are simply of the mind frame "if it's not made in the USA, it's inferior". I like to buy products made here at home, but some imports are just as good and a lot cheaper because of labor costs.
BTW - Just bought a new Buck knife last week (online purchase)and when I got it I checked it out thoroughly. Very well made - good fit - smooth operation (folding blades) with no slop or looseness - shaving sharp right out of the box -and stamped CHINA on the back ofmain blade! :eek:

killadoe 12-28-2007 12:43 PM

RE: Spanish vs American
I chose a CVA Optima for my first ML and have been very inpressed. It has a made in spain barrel, and it gives me under and inch group at 100 yards. I even put a hole in a hole. My Dad has an Optima and a Wolf and both of those are tack drivers aswell. Really accurate guns, they shoot as good if not better than our regular rifles...

frontier gander 12-28-2007 12:54 PM

RE: Spanish vs American
All of the muzzleloaders i own are spanish made. I also have one Whop made rifle that seems to be a great shooter.

Spanish made barrels got a bad name during 1995-1996 when the original company, cva had poor inspection service and let a shipment of unsafe inlines in to the US which had a bad breech plug design. These are the ONLY years to have a recall or known problems.

if you're reading Randy Wakeman's artiles, ask him about the Savage muzzleloader that blew up.

Come to think of it, the last time i emailed him for info on any NEW spanish made muzzleloaders having problems with blowing up, He would not answer me and would just threaten to sue me if i continued to email him :D:D
Hes a real piece of work that guy is.

cayugad 12-28-2007 02:05 PM

RE: Spanish vs American
Take it easy on the new person. He's only looking for information on what to purchase. It is apparent he has tried to do some research about muzzleloaders and must have found the Wakeman articles. I can not blame him for being a little cautious after reading them. And I see no reason to start the Spanish proof testing argument all over again. We've rehashed that too often as far as I am concerned.

I have to admit, after I first read Randy Wakeman's articals, I was a little concerned owning as many of the Spanish guns, as I do. But my take on it, I use them with common sense, according to manufacturer's recommendations, and so far my rifle have been safe to shoot and like others state.. very accurate. Give Phathead credit also, that he did not run out and purchase a rifle and then ask if it is any good... like some people people have done. Still given the choice, I'd take a Thompson Center, Knight or White over any of the other brands of rifles out there.. talking inlines. And this is personal preference. My CVA Staghorn Magnum is a great shooter. Not real pretty when you talk barrel to stock fit, but it lays them down range with the best of them.

Thompson Triumph with a little extra and save for scope.
CVA and get complete set up.
Knight rolling block same as Thompson.
open to others.

As you can see by the considered choices he has a CVA listed. An Optima, Wolf, Kodiak, are all good guns. There are some good deals on them as well at some sites. Before I would purchase any of the rifles suggested by the forum members, try to get out there and handle one. Look at how the barrel fits to the stock, no matter what brand. This might save you a bed job later down the road. Also search old posts about any brand of rifle that has your interest, and what others have found good and bad. Some of them had stock issues did they not?

I do not see an Omega listed in your choices I am guessing because of the Triumph. Right now there are some sweet deals showing up on them. My only opinion (and that is all it is) would be buy the better Omega and not the Z5. Their stock worries me. Although some of you have found ways around that. Being the clever little people you are.

So I try to anser your question this way... If I had $400.00 I would look at a Knight Rolling Block in .50 caliber, with bases, warne QD rings, and a good scope. If I had to save a little more, then get the rifle and the other stuff later. I think that would be all the rifle a person would ever really need considering the reports coming in from KRB7 owners. Again, just my opinion. If you like a different brand, then perhaps explain what appeals to you about about it and why you think it would be a good purchase for him.

rem 700 12-28-2007 02:22 PM

RE: Spanish vs American
I would get an Omega. I know that's not in your list, but it's basically the triumph in plain clothes. That said, the Knight would be a quality rifleas well, and I don't have a problem with my CVA Kodiak, although I like my Omega better.

Indiana SmokePole 12-28-2007 02:47 PM

RE: Spanish vs American
Knight Rolling Block I bought one about 11/2 months ago
and I have to say It is with out a dought the most easyest ML that I have or have had in the past to clean and it will shoot anything with good ACCUR.
I bought mine to shoot Conicals out of and all I can say is WOW AWSOME I shoot 85gr 2fg loose 777 with a bullshop 460gr NEX also a 445gr U C short from BS.
I also shot some Saboted loads out of it with same Results WoW.
But I have some awsome shooting sabot guns in my 2 Knight Disc Extreme XT.

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