Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Hey guys I need recommendations on a new gun??

But first I would like to vent if I may.

I never get out much at the end of the season during muzzleloader so I have never taken a deer with Black powder....

I have a CVA Firebolt or something (its an inline from 2003).

Anyway yesterday I was tracking deer in the snow and didnt see anything until about 5 miles later and at 4:00 a doe jumped up but had no idea and wasnt really frightened. I dipped my primos can and walked up another 10 feet and noticed she hadnt taken off and I could see her in the pines...She trotted out of the pines into the open at 45 yards and I grunted to stop her BROADSIDE 45 YARDS looking the other way! I cranked the scope up and settled right behind her shoulder....CLICK! The gun didnt go off!!!! I fumbled to get another primer in and she took off. I was so bummed. I got another primer in and the gun fired. What happend I guess was the primer froze or got iced. I had slipped and fell in the snow with the gun earlier....

Any recommendations on a VERY Reliable gun where the primer is not exposed to the elements????

Anyone want to buy a CVA?

Thanks for letting me vent! and thank you for any recs

Jim

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Well, any of the "break action" inlines have the primer enclosed. This might be the time to either get one of the CVA's like a Wolf, Optima,a TC Encore or Pro Hunteror a TCOmega. CVA Buckhorn or Kodiak that aren't break action, but have enclosed breech. Some states require open breeches - check your reg's. And ALWAYS check everything out real well if you stumble or fall (of course, you know that now).
Good Luck

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Thanks Jaybe for the recs on guns...my buddy is telling me to check out the TC Omega's for sure. He has one of them and a Knight Disc Extreme.

I like the shorter barrell and the Omega X7 looks awesome but I am a little cheap on spending that much plus I need a scope.

Also I did check the gun really good and blew out the snow everywhere...I should have changed the load and the primer (the load ended up being fine...it was the iced up primer)

PS I like the ripped up ear on the deer in your avatar. My buddy shot one this year that had an ear that was just demolished.

Jim

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

I don't think you NEED a new gun...you just got unlucky, or maybe a little careless. If you got moisture on the rifle during your fall, the best thing to do is wipe off as much moisture as possible and then CHANGE THE CAP/PRIMER. Just takes a tiny drop of water to inert a primer. Also, did you snap a primer or two before you loaded the rifle to clear any oil, moisture or crud from the flashhole? If it wasn't the moisture contamination from your fall, then it sounds like a clogged flashhole is the culprit.

Chalk it up to a hard lesson learned. I bet you won't make that same mistake again.

Mike

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Actually if the rifle did not fire it could be for a number of reasons. You hate to throw out a rifle that you know is accurate. Old primers ... maybe. Brand of primers.. most likely, just your luck.. I would guess that way.

Yet, since the rifle primer did not fire, I suspect a couple things. Perhaps due to the weather the spring that controls the force of the striker, be it a hammer striker or firing pin, got wet when you reported you fell. Of just the annual snow fall was enough to settle in the wrong place and compromise that mechanical condition of the rifle. That little moisture was enough over time to freeze in place. So when you fired the rifle, it slowed all things down enough that it was not able to hit the primer with sufficient force to cause the primer to ignite. Of course after your first attempt the ice or what ever that might have formed was shaken off the mechanical part of the rifle that assists in the ignition of the primer and hence your second one went off without a flaw. That would be my first guess.

Another perhaps scenario would be that over time the accumulation of oil and dust in the hammer striker area, or the firing pin area also stiffened under the weather conditions you faced and like the last scenario. Oil can be a danger in any cold weather hunting conditions when you face moisture or frigid temperatures. Even modern center fire rifles can fall prey to this one. So it is a matter of proper cleaning and getting the rifle ready for cold weather conditions. When I hunt in the cold, I clean all the oils off the hammer striker/ what ever area and then apply a light coat of silicone spray.

These two scenario could be faulted on just your dumb luck, or not using proper maintenance to meet the challenge of what the rifle was going to beintroduced into. This is not the rifles fault...

Primers are normally water proof. You can drop them, even soak them, and they normally go off. You might have just picked the lucky primer. Again, this is dumb luck and I advise you not to waste money on the current lottery in your state with luck such as you would have displayed.

I would guess, had you simply re cocked the rifle and tried the first primer over.. it would have fired. It could have moved back even a small amount to cushion the blow of the striker, The first strike would have seated it, the second would have fired it. It sounds like instead, you simply removed it and replaced it..

As for buying a new rifle.. as a wise man once said when his better half was not listening.. "Now is the time for all good men to purchase a new rifle and sneak it into the house." Perhaps a T/C product, or a Knight product. It sounds like you have had enough of the BPI line of rifles. Any of them are excellent choices...

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

First off are you using #11 caps? if so the 209 systems offer some advantages unless you like a side lock.
To me all the money and time that I put into a hunt requires tools that I have complete confidence in, you proably would not believe how many muzzleloaders I have bought or built since 1962 and I shot them before that of all of them I like the new TC Triumph the best for quite a number of reasons. I had a CVA once too,some people like them mine was not reliable. I have an Omega and like it very much,as a rule they are an excellant choice the Triumph is really a much improved Omega [and that says a lot] but a sabot gun is an open system with out doing some thing about it you can get water in both ends of almost if not all of them. There are ways of dealing with that, #1 water can and will get past the sabot if given a chance but a finger cot over the end of the barrel will stop it. Even most of the closed actions leak water in if the circumstances are right, but the Omega and the Triump and likely a few of the others can be sealed by putting bees wax or candle wax over the outer back of the barrel where it meets the action. Lee

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Sounds like ya should have reprimed when you fell in the snow. I have a Winchester X-150, exposed primer, and never had a misfire in wet weather.

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

You can buy a stainless/black Omega now for a little over $300... I had one of these and sold it to fund a Pro-Hunter and while the PH is awesome it has a awesome price tag.I really miss my Omega... they may go down in history as one of the best muzzleoaders of all time. So I say go get yourself one of these... and while your at it, get a Leupold scope, shoot APP, and Nosler bullets...;)

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

I second this. Generally, when a caplock rifle, inline of sidelock, fails to fire, but the primer did, it is due to there being something in the flash channel that diverts or blocks the primer flame. If the primer failed to fire, it very easioy might have if you had just recocked the gun and tried it gain, as Cayugad suggested. Sometimes a primer is not fully seated, and the srtiker blow is partially absorbed by re-seating the primer, and it does not hit hard enough to fire it the first time. Your fall could have contributed to this.

If one is hunting in conditions which can permit the primer,cap and nipple to get wet, it is a simple matter to wrap a strip of kitchen plastic wrap around the lock section to keep water out. Most guns can be fired without having to even remove this stuff first, especially if you have a scope on the gun so the wrapping is not blocking your sighting equipment..

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Might also try some duct tape to help water proof the area...

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

I see where Cabela's has the CVA Wolf reduced to $119.99!
Never owned one myself, but I've heard they are a good gun for the money. If I didn't already have too many inlines I'd be ordering one at that price!
I DO have a Traditions Pursuit Pro which is a similar design and it is very reliable and accurate. The 209 ignition in the closed action (break-open type action) is not waterproof, but it's very water-resistant.
I hunted with it on our opening day of gun season in heavy rain and simply used a nylon cover over the action (an old folding camo chair bag made a good cheap cover ;)) and a baloon over the muzzle. When I finally saw a deer I simply slipped the cover off the action & scope, cocked the rifle, and BOOM! No problems at all!

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Heavy rain I use this and put Saran wrap over the breech area. They fold up nice in your knap sack and only cost about $20. Chap Gleason

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

"have a CVA Firebolt or something (its an inline from 2003)."

Maybe the primer was wet: But the CVA bolt actions are somewhat prone to misfires under normal conditions. The mainspring gets weak from being compressed.My Magnum Hunter CVA failed me a couple of times wheneverything was as dry as a bone. Every time i take the bolt apart to clean it, i stretch the spring a little. Do not leave the bolt cocked when storing the gun.

It is a very good idea toput on a new primerat about mid-day even in good weather. Primers are very cheap. You will remember thatyour gun failed to fire at that once in a lifetime buck forever.

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

i owned a cva firebolt for 4 years and never had anykind of problem and my brother took it over and loves it.too many people get hung up on that cva guns are crap and it always the guns fault!

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

I hear of this all the time, put fresh primers on if you have any moisture on the gun!!! Dont take the whole pack with you, take a few and keep them sealed up!

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Before youwrap your CVA Firewhatever around a tree...

What primer and powder where you shooting????

Good advise thus far, I'll add...

Keep the CVA. You own it, you will get next to nothing if you try to sell it and it's good to have an extra ML around as either a backup or as aloaner for a friend.

Any of the break or drop action or the knight bolt DISCML's shooting209 shotgun primerwill be more reliable than an exposed 11 cap.

In my view, you get what you pay for and I would not look much farther than T/C or Knight. There are others. If buying new, forget money to begin with, then go with the ML that feels the best to youwhen you shoulder it along with it's and the company that makes it reputation.

Back to your ill-behaved CVA...

Perhaps a couple of things happened other than what has already been mentioned. By the way, any of these things can cause any ML to mis-fire.
1) Your powder charge could have been slightly moisture or lubecompromised the time when you initally loaded up if you did not remove everything from the bore prior to loading. I've both done and seen this happen. Or the breech plug or nipple was clogged slightly. A nipple-pick is a very handy gizmo. I use one every time after loading the main charge before placing a primer - even with my modern inlines.
2) Could have had a bad cap?
3) Powder might not be as fresh and could have drawn moisture over time, which makes ignition more difficult.
4) Too much or incorrect lube on the bolt/plunger/firing pin assembly. As the temperature get's colder, the viscosity of the lube you are using increases. I have seen ML's (and other weapons) either not fire or cycle correctly as a result of over-lubrication and lubes that are not suited for colder temperatures.
5) Should have changed the cap when you dumped in the snow.
6)Can get a very inexpensive breech cover that works like champ and is much less than the cost of a new ML.
7) Combination of thingsthat resultin a mis-fire.

If dead set on a new ML, get what you really want first and you will never regret it. If can't afford due to optics, then go a year or so with open sights until you can get the best opitcs you can afford.

You will rarelyhear ofa cheaper rifle setup fail because of decent optics, but you often hear of a cheap optics failure regardless of the quality of the rifle.

M2C,

Tahquamenon

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Back to your ill-behaved CVA...

These new Ill-behaved cva's now come with a barrel thats guaranteed to out shoot any production made TC barrel. ;) The barrels on the new cva's are also available for the tc encore shooter than needs to shoot conicals accurately.

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Chap,
I also have one of the umbrellas you posted the picture of. ;)

As for CVA, from my experiences they are usually very accurate gunswith a variety of projectiles and a very reasonable price on them. I'm hearing great reviews about the new barrels, too!

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Yep. Ive only seen 2-3 posts on the new cva electra with the bergara barrel and they were shooting 1" groups @100yards right out of the box with powerbelts.

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

FG, I and everyone here understand thatyou love CVA's. Fine with me.

I was not picking on CVA in this thread. The author of the thread was frustrated with his ML which happend to be a CVA. However the issues associated with the misfire I feel had little ifnothing to do with the MFG of the ML.

As for guarantee's... anyone can take a dump in a box and mark it with a guarantee.The best warranty everis the one you never need to use.

As far as claims of outshooting any T/C, please direct us all to the section of the CVA warranty or websitewhere this is stated. Fairly wild claim. How and under what conditions is this claim substantiated and carried out?

FYI, thetop team scoringML maker for several years in a row is actually Knight.

As a general comment regarding CVA, I think their quality is vastly improved over the years and rightfully so although I have not and will likely not buy one.Muchof the worst catastrophic failures in the modern ML industry were as a result of poor quality by CVA.

:eek:

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

Actually my sweet spot now stands with deer creek. CVA's are just excellent shooters, atleast the ones ive shot or owned.

RE: Click! (I need a new gun!!!)
 

I agree, I have yet to be able to get pretty much any ML to shoot well.