need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

Hey everyone.

I sighted in my Remington model 700 ML yesterday. I am/was using 2 pellets 777 (100 gr.), 245 grain powerbelt sabot (green), and CCI 209 primers.

I found, this gun does not repeat well at all. I am relatively close now at 50 yards. How often do I need to brush/swab, etc between shots. I got 3 shots then on the 4th it just went snap! No boom. 1 shot gets the breech plug nearly clogged completely. IS there something cleaner I can use as far as powder? More reliable primers?
Cleaning this thing is a pain. What is the easiest routine I can follow to make this as painless as possible. I am new to ML's so any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback. Mark

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

Mark - I am wondering if you are shooting #11 caps. If you are the problem is your shooting pellets and the #11 caps just do not have the flame power to give you consistent ignition and performance with the pellets.Top that with any moisture left from swabbing and it is a sure thing you will have a misfire. That would explain your misfires and poor accuracy. If you are shooting 209 primers, then perhaps you have some very old powder pellets. With powerbelts you do not need to swab all that much. Some people do not swab a barrel except when loading is impossible, when shooting powerbelts.

Another thought is, when you swab the barrel make sure that patch is not soaking wet. Patches you swab with need to be damp, not wet. Work the patch in short strokes and clean the barrel, then a couple dry patches. This insures that the barrel is not left damp or wet for the next powder charge.

Get a pound of loosePyrodex RS and load 100 grains of that and the same powerbelt and with the #11 cap (I suspect you are shooting)you will get excellent ignition and should get good accuracy.. if your rifle likes powerbelts. Work your load up from there. Before you load for the first time, swab the barrel with alcohol. Then swab with some dry patches. Finally, leave a dry patch on the breech and pop a cap or two. Pull that dry patch and it should show burn marks. If it does, you're ready to load.

Sabotloader shoots a Remington as well and might be able to offer you some much better projectile choices...

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

I'm sorry... I left that out, they are 209 caps.... sorry.

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

Cayugad:
Sorry, I am shooting 209 caps....

thanks for the info on cleaning, I will get some loose powder and try a comparison and for the tip on checking to make sure I am getting spark through the breech plug.

Sabotloader: I hear you shoot the same thing.... mind if I ask what you have had your best luck with? Thanks all for helping a newbie out!
Mark

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

With the 209 primers you should get good ignition. So I am wondering if you are using to wet a swab when you do swab the barrel. This would create a sludge and push that down onto the breech plug. And therefore not getting the bore dry enough. If the pellets are old that can effect them. Or if the breech plug is old and worn. After you clean the breech plug hold it up to the light and take a look through it. Can you see light through the breech plug? If it is clear then it should fire. What are you swabbing with? I use a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and car windshield washer fluid. I lightly dampen a patch. If you can ring fluid out of the patch with your fingers .. do so.

If the rifle is acting up, the first thing I would do is go to a loose powder still. Loose powder goes off easier IMO. Because if the breech plug is open, and you have good fire and good primers, normally the rifle should fire fine.

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

First off not all guns like PB's much less shoot any particular weight.
Try a Sabor tooth around 300gr.
Also I suspect if you got a musket nipple and used musket caps you would have better luck.
Their is another way to go try pistol Pyrodex it ignites better and will burn more evenly with #11 CAPS,
and if you are going to burn 777 I would suggest a kit to switch the gun to 209 shotgun primers.
777 is the hardest powder to ignite and will most likely continue to trouble you if you try to use #11 caps with it
this is the way I have worked out the cap thing;CCI- black powder will work, 1075 RWS- will work ok with Pyrodex
Musket caps are real consistant with all powders and usually the most accurate.
There is a differance in the way different guns ignite because of mechanical differances.
Win 209 have given me the best answer in some of my newer guns like the Triumph, in this gun the win777 and the Rem muzzleloader 209 are very dirty and plug up the touch hole.
I guess if I were in your shoes, I would remember that 777 puts very hard crud in the barrel and you need to wipe with a cleaner like 1/2 alk. and 1/2 windsheild warsher or windex with viniger using a damp patch the 1or2 dry patches. Pyrodex can be that way to but usually dont wipe it till the 3rd shot; now if you want to try it APP is very clean and I have shot all morning with out wiping it.
You will find loose powder is much cheaper and you can adjust the load to find out what it takes to make the gun do its best. If you are not stuck on the easy load bit then try some sabots I know some 700Rem like the shock Waves or if you really want that type bullet the the 270gr Sabor Tooth and the 300gr Sabor Tooth are a much better bullet for a much better price. Lee

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

The first time I ran a patch down it I am betting it was too wet and did as you are describing....
It is a new gun.
I just boght the powder pellets last week but they could still be old I imagine....

A guy at the range said he never runs a swab down til he is done shooting that he only usses his wire brush about every third shot.... I am guessing with the BP out... what are your thoughts on that?

I am using some stuff I bought at my local gun shop... a white squirt bottle with a yellow label, sorry, I cant think of the name right now.
Thanks for all your imput!

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

The pellets are probably fine. Normally until they are opened they run little risk of going bad.

As for swabbing, there are so many ways people swab. Some do just brush the bore. Some do not swab at all. Others use Windex as there swab solution. I make my mixture and like it a lot. Some people use spit. The main thing is not to get the patch too wet. And don't forget the dry patches afterward. From all I have read, the Remington are good shooters.

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

My Remington does not like Powerbelts, however slap 100gr of Pyrodex Select or two 50gr Pryodex pellets in and top off with a T/C Shockwave and it will lap the holes at 100yds. Barnes expanders group well also. just be sure to run those dry patches through the barrel after swabbing between shots. I installed the 209 kit but it was a pain trying to get those suckers out of the primer hole so I went back to musket caps. Word to the wise, make sure you break down the bolt/firing pinmechanism when you clean er up, not doing so cost me some venison about 3 or 4 yrs ago. I also like to clean it with some solvent designed to break down the plastic residue left by the sabots every now and then; I don't know what the recommended frequency should be for this I would guess every 50-100 shots or so.

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

for whats its worth I had trouble with my remington igniting 777 pellets even with the 209, I went back to 2 50grain pyrodex pellets pushing a 250grain hornady sst and have hadgood results....

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

Thank you for that info... and you too nolehoe....
Glad to hear some fellow remington shooters let'n me know what works well for them!

The guy at my local gun shop steered me away from pyrodex... never got a good reason, but I hear you fellas saying you have better luck with it over 777.
Cool. I will go pick some up... and some shock waves and see how they do..... what grain do you recomend on the shockwaves?
I will also get some hornady's and do some group comparisons....

What are you guys doing for cleaning between shots? Remove breech, dry brush and dry patch? Or do you go to solution and dry patches between each shot? Thanks for tolerating all my questions fellas.
Mark

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

250gr and you might want to look at the bonded version, there is a thread on here about recovered bullets you might want to read if you haven't already; they also have alot of good things to say about the Speer Gold Dot. FYI I currently shoot Barnes Spitfires out of my Omega, but the last time I shot my Remington I shot some Barnes Expanders which seemed to shoot just (or close enough) as accurate as the SW. As far as terminal performance goes I've only shot one deer with a SW and it did the job-nothing special about wound channel but nothing wrong with it either.
Shot a deer one time with a Barnes Expander entrance was in front of the front shoulder and exit was at the last rib-the wound was unreal. No trying to sway you one way or the other, just telling what I know...which aint much:D

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

Check this out http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2469481
and this http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2385604&mpage=1

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

Thanks nolehoe, I really appreciate the info!

RE: need advice -- issues with powder, sabots, etc? or me?
 

You can get what's called a nipple pick to ensure that your breech plug is clear after each shot.

Don't dispair on the Rem 700. They have their quirks just like every ML but they are deadly accurate. I have one of the early Rem 700's.

I have not shot the 209 conversion, so I cannot tell you how thatworks.

I shoot the #11 cap with RWS caps and .44 240gr Hornady XTP/Green sabot under 90 gr FFG 777. Several other folks with the R700ML shoot that same load with very accurate results.

I clean inbetween each and every shot in every ML I own.

Try swabbing the bore after each shot with a damp (not wet) patch of 50/50 Mix of 99% Alcohol & Windex. Short stroke the patch down and up, flip and do again followed by a dry patch. Then the bore will be clean and dry. The two most successful elements to happy sabot loading. If you are a clean bore POI type like me, then you are set. Otherwise then you will need to occassionally clean the bore when loading becomes miserable.

An interesting couple of threads regarding the Rem 700.You can find more if you do a search:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1546849&mpage=1&key=cleaning&amp ;#1548426

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2373783&mpage=1&key=&#237663 4

Hang in there with the Rem700ML. It's a good ML. Be sure to detail clean and lube the ML (including the bolt and firing pin/spring assembly) immediately after each shooting session. Folks have forgotten about the firing pin assembly only to find it rusting up to the point of not functioning.
Granted it does have it's issues, but I don't own an ML that does not. Good Luck!

Tahquamenon