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First shot on a clean barrel
What do you guys do to when hunting to get the first shot to hit close to the group. Seems I am about an inch or two high usually. I really don’t want to fire a fouling shot at 5:00 AM. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
If you are going to hunt on a clean barrel then you should sight in or at least know for certain where it will hit each time, on that clean barrel.
Some people claim if you load the rifle and then take a patch with a "LITTLE" bore butter on it, and swab down to the projectile, it will act as a fowling and make them all shoot in the same place. I tried that I never found it ot be the case. What I do is learn where the rifle will shoot on a clean barrel, if I decide to hunt that way. Today I hunted a clean barrel and I know the rifle will shoot about an inch low. Well an inch at 50 yards means nothing to me. I aim dead center kill zone and let fly. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
For me it depends on the load I'm using. Some loads will shoot close enough to the samePOI clean or dirty, others shoot several inches out of the group when clean but otherwise very tight. I do swab between shots forgood consistency when shooting groups. It doesn't take long to do a quick spit patch before loading again and all you need in the field is a patch and your toungue to do it. I do, however, check each load for consistency without swabbing to see what happens if a really fast follow up shot is needed, just in case. For fouling the bore I use one of 2 methods, 1) I drop in an old Clean Shot pellet and put a patch filled sabot over it to add a little resistance, or 2) I put about 30 to 50 grains of whatever powder I'm using into the barrel and something for wadding to hold it in there. I pop a cap with the dummy load and then swab as I would at the range with a spit patch then load for the hunt. I have done this in the morning before hunting and I've done it the night before, depending on the situation. I have also left the gun loaded for up to a week of hunting and still had the load go off and perform as expected.
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
ORIGINAL: cayugad What I do is learn where the rifle will shoot on a clean barrel, if I decide to hunt that way. Today I hunted a clean barrel and I know the rifle will shoot about an inch low. Well an inch at 50 yards means nothing to me. I aim dead center kill zone and let fly. In terms of all my rifles I want to know where they will shoot clean vs fouled. In terms of a sub shooting ML I have always started out each morning with a clean barrel so I learn its traits and know what to expect. I have been lucky that most of my inlines shoot very close clean so like cayugad mentions the small variance is a non factor. Are you making sure all the oil is out of your barrel prior to loading it clean??? Increase in pressure due to oil left in the bore often shows a higher POI. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
I'm guessing you are talking about inlines...I clean betwee shots, plain and simply...It's not really a good idea to throw a load of black powder down a barrel before you clean anyway...I just have a small container of alcohol, cleaning patches and oil in a vest pocket...It only takes about 3 minutes to clean, lube and dry the barrel before the next shot.
With my flinters, I use a .018 patch for the first shot and .015 for second... |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
I have found that when a lot of people talk about a clean barrel they mean one with oil in it. I scrub mine with boiling water and dry it good before I load it for hunting,I find that it hits a lot closer to the group that way. Lee
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
My three muzzleloaders shoot their chosen loads to the same place-clean or dirty. The Encore just does not like 777: i tried it along with the .44 caliber 240 grain XTP bullet.With a clean barrel it was very accurate. With a dirty barrel it was all over the place.
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
I clean the barrel of my encore after every shot to get my gun dialed in. Then I also know that I will hit about 3-4 inches low when the barrel is dirty at 100 yards.
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
When i was using Triple 7 loose and a 410 grain great plains conical, The first shot would be dead on, the next 2-3 shots on a dirty bore were 4" low, but they grouped excellent. I bought a can of Pyrodex P and it was grouping perfect, even on a dirty bore. 6 shots before it started to open up.
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
Some rifles will put the first shot close, some don't. If the rifle don't keep them within a couple inches @ 100 yards I fire a fouling shot before hunting with it.
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
IMO it depends on what type of rifle, and what type of projectile you are using. It also depends on what degree of accuracy you need. In my Knight Long Range Hunter I am only concerned about the first shot from a clean barrel. I am concerned with pinpoint accuracy out to 200 yards. I have never seen any one with pinpoint accuracy out to 200 yards with a dirty barrel. But as Cayugad said, if your concern is fifty yard minute of deer accuracy with a roundball or large conical, then pinpoint accuracy is not your major concern.
IMO you should determine your needs first. Then go from there. I also believe thatthe first shot isyour most dependable shot, as far as gun function is concerned. I have seen a lot of second shot misfires in myshooting days. Very few people get second shot opportunities with a ML. I always thoroughly clean my barrel after every shot with my Knight. But I shoot the devil out of my Lyman flintlock, with just a quick patch or two after every three or four shots. Tom. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
It all depends on what you want to do with your rifle. Some people do a great deal of target shooting and don't want the bother of swabbing between shots so their rifles are sighted in on a fouled barrel. My rifles (all flintlocks) are for hunting deer and they are sighted in on a clean barrel. My barrels are put away with an oiled bore. Before hunting with them they are washed out with dawn dish soap and warm water and dried with cleaning patches. I let them sit for at least an hour before they are loaded.
My loads are worked up in three shot groups with the sighting in on the first shot from a clean barrel. I will take several sessions to test that the bull is hit from a clean barrel every time. Do your sighting in on windless days (Mornings around here are windless for the most part). I take the time to clean the barrel between loadings for the second and third shots and clean until the patch comes out completely clean. I have no problem shooting 2" groups with open sights on windless mornings at 100 yards. Every rifle I have shows that the first shot from a clean barrel will hit to the same spot consistantly and the second/third shots on a swabbed clean barrel will be very close to the first. I have found that fast reloads are not an issue for me no matter what type of firearm I am using. Put the first where it belongs within it's power range and you will make meat. Make a good shot and watch/listen to your deers reaction. Most times you will see or hear it go down. Take your time cleaning the bore and load up and then follow up. You won't need a second shot 99% of the time. It amazes me that people always say that their first shot from a clean barrel always hits left or right or high or whatever; use that to your advantage as muzzleloading is for the most part a one shot deal. Clean your barrel well after the first shot in the attempt to duplicate the clean bore condition. I use real black powder and have no experience with the subs but I doubt the method would not work equally as well with it. I do the same thing with my centerfires (no cleaning between shots of course). Acouple of trips to my range to tweek thescope until that first shot is dead nuts where I want itand the second/third are within an inch or so and it's done. I make sure I buy several boxes of the same lot of ammo once it's sighted in. I am looking for pinpoint accuracy from the first shot. In my revolvers I find my most accurate cylinder and mark it; and always use it for my first shot when hunting. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
Thanks for the input, I suspect with enough time and shooting I would figure it out but you guys advice would save me some time. I have an Omega w 4-12 swift scope. A lot of my hunting is over CRP fields with possible long shots. Here are my goals. Shoot 150yd maybe to 200 with first shot. I am not going to shoot unless I can shoot a 4-inch group at my max range. The bullets I am playing with are Knight Ultimate Slam Series 250 grain boat tail all copper and PR bullet 175 dead center. I am shooting 100 gr T7. A Any other thoughts appreciated. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
I am no expert , but what i do is clean my gun spotless between shots , so i am always shooting a clean barrel .
I run two wet and two dry patches ( both sides ) down maybarrel after each shot. The last wet and dry patchare spotless . This had worked great with both my Traditions pursuit pro and my new Encore . http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/rgkempton/Muzzle%20loaders/DSCN0019-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/rgkempton/Muzzle%20loaders/4shot65yrds.jpg |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
ORIGINAL: Mossie It all depends on what you want to do with your rifle. Some people do a great deal of target shooting and don't want the bother of swabbing between shots so their rifles are sighted in on a fouled barrel. My rifles (all flintlocks) are for hunting deer and they are sighted in on a clean barrel. My barrels are put away with an oiled bore. Before hunting with them they are washed out with dawn dish soap and warm water and dried with cleaning patches. I let them sit for at least an hour before they are loaded. My loads are worked up in three shot groups with the sighting in on the first shot from a clean barrel. I will take several sessions to test that the bull is hit from a clean barrel every time. Do your sighting in on windless days (Mornings around here are windless for the most part). I take the time to clean the barrel between loadings for the second and third shots and clean until the patch comes out completely clean. I have no problem shooting 2" groups with open sights on windless mornings at 100 yards. Every rifle I have shows that the first shot from a clean barrel will hit to the same spot consistantly and the second/third shots on a swabbed clean barrel will be very close to the first. I have found that fast reloads are not an issue for me no matter what type of firearm I am using. Put the first where it belongs within it's power range and you will make meat. Make a good shot and watch/listen to your deers reaction. Most times you will see or hear it go down. Take your time cleaning the bore and load up and then follow up. You won't need a second shot 99% of the time. It amazes me that people always say that their first shot from a clean barrel always hits left or right or high or whatever; use that to your advantage as muzzleloading is for the most part a one shot deal. Clean your barrel well after the first shot in the attempt to duplicate the clean bore condition. I use real black powder and have no experience with the subs but I doubt the method would not work equally as well with it. I do the same thing with my centerfires (no cleaning between shots of course). Acouple of trips to my range to tweek thescope until that first shot is dead nuts where I want itand the second/third are within an inch or so and it's done. I make sure I buy several boxes of the same lot of ammo once it's sighted in. I am looking for pinpoint accuracy from the first shot. In my revolvers I find my most accurate cylinder and mark it; and always use it for my first shot when hunting. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
All cold bore shoots always impact differently in ML and centerfire rifles. Keep the barrel wiped free of any lubricant before hunting and since we are talking ML just keep a running log of your cold bore shots and note the impact of each cold bore shoot and you can either sight the rifle to the correct point of impact you want, or aim a little low. Most of the time you only get one shot so I personally adjust the point of impact with my scope for a clean barrel cold bore shot. Beside cold bore and clean barrel there are other things that will effect bullet tragectory, such as temperature and humidity. Then again I wouldn't about those things. I would shoot my muzzle loader close to the hunting season to ensure the zero is correct and then just hunt and have fun.
Thank a soldier for your freedom. |
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
My rifles are always stored with an oiled bore and are refreshed with an oiled patch every couple of months. Every rifle I own is sighted in on a cold and clean barrel and stays that way forever; I have a couple of centerfires that were sighted in 20 years ago and still knock the bullseye out without any adjustment in 20 years.
My flintlocks are stored oiled as well; I just make sure it's completely dry before I oil them. My flintlocks are cleaned white after every shot when hunting unless for some reason I would need to load it very fast for a follow up shot. That has never happened; rapid follow up shots and muzzleloaders don't mix. When I clean my flintlocks I do so with warm (not hot) water and a little dish soap in a 5 gal. bucket, dump the bucket, add some clean warm water and pump some more patches and dry with some more patches. Next I run a few patches with denatured alcohol down the bore and a dry patch which should come out completely white. Now stand it on the muzzle end for at least a couple of hours so you are sure it is completely dry and run a cleanoiled patch through the bore. When your ready to hunt run a fewpatches with the denatured alcoholdown thebore; next pour a little down the bore and let it soak in for a few seconds; turn it muzzle down to drain out and then runa couple dry patches; run a dry patch down the bore and leave it on the jag and ramrod and stand it in the cornermuzzle down on the ramrod for a few min. or so. Your barrel is now clean as a whistle and oil free; the denatured alcohol will dryand clean clear into the pores of the steel. Do not load a charge until you get to where you want to hunt and therifle has adjusted for the temperature of the day. Clean, dry and deadly accurate first shots are now yours; rapid follow up shots seldom require pinpoint accuracy but first shots most always do. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
I target shoot and hunt with a clean bore, always have and always will.
I obtain my best overall POI grouping from a clean bore for every shot. That's what I sight in and hunt hunt with. Some folks like to fire a squib shot or primers to "pre-foul" the bore. If that works for them I certainly don't wish to change anyone's religion. For inlines, loadingsabot projectileson a dirty bore is also more difficult loading. M2C, Tahquamenon |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
bowbender6, I use the 200 gr Shock Wave [50 cal sabot 40cal bullet] with 110 gr 777 sighted 3 inch high at 100 it hits 4 inches low at 200 yds. the next closest thing to it is the 200gr 40cal XTP in the same sabot. Lee
PS For some reason it seems not only faster and flater but also more accurate in my Omega and my Triumph. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
"I target shoot and hunt with a clean bore, always have"
So do i. The first shot from a muzzleloaderis the only one that counts. |
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
mine doesn't hit much different,it hits right on at about 75 yards.....gun is sighted to be around 1 1/2 high at that range on dirty barrel.....i just let it rip
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
With my Pro-Hunter it will shoot in the same hole using APP Shockey's Gold on a clen bore and with one shot in the bore... after that it starts to vary.
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RE: First shot on a clean barrel
I hunt on a clean barrel. Before I load to go out I take a patch with rubbing alcohol and clean the oil out and follow by 2 dry patches. Barnes Expander MZ and 100 grains of Pyrodex pellets. Target is a 6 inch shoot-n-see at 100 yards. 1,2,and 3 were in there and 4,5,and 6 started to open up. I didn't do anything between shots except load back up. Hits about 3 inches high at 50 yards. This target was shot this past summer.
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