Elk Bullet Questions and New Gun Question
11-14-2007, 12:54 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Elk Bullet Questions and New Gun Question
What are all you guys using for Elk. I unfortunately have not been too sucessful here as of late with my inlines and my last one was shot with my 54 and a Hornady Great Plains Conical.
Need to find something good before December 7th when my damage control cow tag that has a 99.9% sucess ratio kicked off. Last time I got drawn I hunted 15 minutes after a 1 hour hike from the truck and boom/flop on a big tastey cow.
Have been using the PR Dead Center with deestating effects on deer but the 340 gr I have recovered seem to have shed a lot of wieght. Only ever had one stay in the deer it was a quartering too me shot through the front shoulder that lodged in the skin on the far side. My Inlines love them. My 54 am sticking with the fffg and a big conical and it shot great yet again yesterday do not know why I ever bought these inlines. Here in Washington we have to use all lead bullets also as a reminder for your bullet recomendations. My two Austin Hellecks that I love to shoot really love these 340gr PR Dead Centers. With open sights I get ragged holes at 50yds and moving to 100 I am a real limitation and they open up to 1 1/2". Don't know how fast they are am pushing them with 100gr by volume ffg Triple 7 powder. Was shooting the 405gr (all lead) Powerbelts this weekend to see how they shoot and these also shoot great groups out of both Austin Hellecks. So picked some 54 powerbelts up to try in the sidelock.
So another quandy is I bought another Washington State legal rifle recently as they are getting few and far between in the legal sense and also the ones I like. I am particular on the safety and hate the legal Knight rifle for its cocker/safety. I got a screaming deal on a T/C Black Diamond Express. Nice little light rifle expessially compared to my Austin and Hellecks. But heck what a kick. Anyhow. The sights don't have enough adjustment to get the gun up on target at 50yds. Tried the 340gr Dead Centers and get them the closest hitting the bottom of a 6" shoot and see. 295gr, 405gr powerbelts were way low and to the right. 385gr and 410gr Hornady Conicals were also low but centered with the dead centers. All were only tried with 100gr loose ffg Triple 7.
Swapped the sights for a set of Truglow Fiberoptics that seemed to have a larger rear ramp adjustment. We'll see how that works after my bruised up right shoulder gets to feeling a little better. Shot all four of my ML'ers with full house hunting loads yesterday so am a bit sour.
Need to find something good before December 7th when my damage control cow tag that has a 99.9% sucess ratio kicked off. Last time I got drawn I hunted 15 minutes after a 1 hour hike from the truck and boom/flop on a big tastey cow.
Have been using the PR Dead Center with deestating effects on deer but the 340 gr I have recovered seem to have shed a lot of wieght. Only ever had one stay in the deer it was a quartering too me shot through the front shoulder that lodged in the skin on the far side. My Inlines love them. My 54 am sticking with the fffg and a big conical and it shot great yet again yesterday do not know why I ever bought these inlines. Here in Washington we have to use all lead bullets also as a reminder for your bullet recomendations. My two Austin Hellecks that I love to shoot really love these 340gr PR Dead Centers. With open sights I get ragged holes at 50yds and moving to 100 I am a real limitation and they open up to 1 1/2". Don't know how fast they are am pushing them with 100gr by volume ffg Triple 7 powder. Was shooting the 405gr (all lead) Powerbelts this weekend to see how they shoot and these also shoot great groups out of both Austin Hellecks. So picked some 54 powerbelts up to try in the sidelock.
So another quandy is I bought another Washington State legal rifle recently as they are getting few and far between in the legal sense and also the ones I like. I am particular on the safety and hate the legal Knight rifle for its cocker/safety. I got a screaming deal on a T/C Black Diamond Express. Nice little light rifle expessially compared to my Austin and Hellecks. But heck what a kick. Anyhow. The sights don't have enough adjustment to get the gun up on target at 50yds. Tried the 340gr Dead Centers and get them the closest hitting the bottom of a 6" shoot and see. 295gr, 405gr powerbelts were way low and to the right. 385gr and 410gr Hornady Conicals were also low but centered with the dead centers. All were only tried with 100gr loose ffg Triple 7.
Swapped the sights for a set of Truglow Fiberoptics that seemed to have a larger rear ramp adjustment. We'll see how that works after my bruised up right shoulder gets to feeling a little better. Shot all four of my ML'ers with full house hunting loads yesterday so am a bit sour.
11-14-2007, 01:12 PM
#2
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Elk Bullet Questions and New Gun Question
The all lead part is the kicker.. In my Black Diamond XR a excellent bullet is the 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB. I also know a person took a very large elk cow shooting 110 grains of Triple Se7en 2f and that SSB out of his Black Diamond. Granted the elk was only about 70 yards as I remember him telling.. and he did not get pass through. The bullet expanded perfect he said, and was under the skin on the other side of the entry wound. The cow managed 30 yards of walking he said, and just dropped. That SSB would be one recommendation.
Another thing you might want to try is the 460 grain .503 No Excuse Conicals. I shoot them out of my Black Diamond XR with excellent results.
This was shot out of the BD at 100 yards off shooting sticks. It was a drizzle day during deer season when I shot that. I was going to go hunt the farm that night instead of the woods I hunted all morning at the other place. The BD has a scope on it. The small hole to the far right is a SSB. I decided to hunt thickets that afternoon so I wanted to get rid of the SSB and decided to check the NO Excuses Conicals at the same time. I never swabbed the barrel the whole time.
Another thing you might want to try is the 460 grain .503 No Excuse Conicals. I shoot them out of my Black Diamond XR with excellent results.
This was shot out of the BD at 100 yards off shooting sticks. It was a drizzle day during deer season when I shot that. I was going to go hunt the farm that night instead of the woods I hunted all morning at the other place. The BD has a scope on it. The small hole to the far right is a SSB. I decided to hunt thickets that afternoon so I wanted to get rid of the SSB and decided to check the NO Excuses Conicals at the same time. I never swabbed the barrel the whole time.
11-14-2007, 02:26 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
RE: Elk Bullet Questions and New Gun Question
"Have been using the PR Dead Center with deestating effects on deer but the 340 gr I have recovered seem to have shed a lot of wieght. Only ever had one stay in the deer it was a quartering too me shot through the front shoulder that lodged in the skin on the far side. My Inlines love them."
So what's the problem? If you get that kind of penetration after going thru a shoulder you shouldn't have a problem shooting thru a cow on a broadside shot. You just need to pick your shot and stay away from big bones. Actually a 340gr bullet should work for most shots that would be ethical on a cow elk. My son shot a 450 pound cow last year with a 250gr Barnes (I know it's notlead but lead has a tendency to stick together pretty well) and it blew right thru, the 340 is almost 100gr heavier so it could still shed some weight and have enough to punch thru.
I also like the heavy conicals like the No Excuse Cayugad mentioned or the ones Bull Shop sells. They shoot well in most of myguns and certainly produce some serious energy on the receiving end.If all I could use was a lead conical they would be high on my list, actually, they are high on my list.
So what's the problem? If you get that kind of penetration after going thru a shoulder you shouldn't have a problem shooting thru a cow on a broadside shot. You just need to pick your shot and stay away from big bones. Actually a 340gr bullet should work for most shots that would be ethical on a cow elk. My son shot a 450 pound cow last year with a 250gr Barnes (I know it's notlead but lead has a tendency to stick together pretty well) and it blew right thru, the 340 is almost 100gr heavier so it could still shed some weight and have enough to punch thru.
I also like the heavy conicals like the No Excuse Cayugad mentioned or the ones Bull Shop sells. They shoot well in most of myguns and certainly produce some serious energy on the receiving end.If all I could use was a lead conical they would be high on my list, actually, they are high on my list.
11-14-2007, 07:27 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
RE: Elk Bullet Questions and New Gun Question
This is what I got with them with my Omega.
110 loose T7 w/ 340 PR Dead Center, 3 shot group - 1704 FPS avg @ 10 yds from muzzle.
However this was a very accurate load but I haven't chrony'd it;
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v445/HuntAway/?action=view&current=Zero50Cal2.bmp
110 loose T7 w/ 340 PR Dead Center, 3 shot group - 1704 FPS avg @ 10 yds from muzzle.
However this was a very accurate load but I haven't chrony'd it;
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v445/HuntAway/?action=view&current=Zero50Cal2.bmp
11-14-2007, 09:19 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Elk Bullet Questions and New Gun Question
Jason S
My son-in-law lives in Kennewick, he barrowed one of my A&H's several years ago to ML hunt with in Washington. At first I set him up with a Knight sabot and a 300 grain all lead bullet... shot really well from the A&H and worked real well on deer. But if I were setting him up for elk today I would switch him to a 460 grain Bull Shop. It sounds to heavy to be considered but it really has a decent BC and with all that weight it has one heck of a energy ratio. I have shot a lot of elk over here in Idaho and if I were required to hunt with an all lead bullet it would be the Bull Shop - crap I forgot this year I am required to use a conical of PRB.
With 90 grains of T7-3f from a Hawken I am shooting that bullet @ 1500 fps. It has a lot of drop to it because of its weight but out to 150 yards it is a performer.
If you would need these bullets for this season - they might be tough to get in such a short time they come from Alaska. You will need .503's for the A&H... but there is a guy in Utah that makes a variety of them that is very close to Bull Shops, they are called No Excuses...
Both of these bullets are slip fit - they go down much like a sabot - no short starter needed...
http://bullshop.gunloads.com/contact.html
http://members.aol.com/nebullets/
Hope you find what you need...
My son-in-law lives in Kennewick, he barrowed one of my A&H's several years ago to ML hunt with in Washington. At first I set him up with a Knight sabot and a 300 grain all lead bullet... shot really well from the A&H and worked real well on deer. But if I were setting him up for elk today I would switch him to a 460 grain Bull Shop. It sounds to heavy to be considered but it really has a decent BC and with all that weight it has one heck of a energy ratio. I have shot a lot of elk over here in Idaho and if I were required to hunt with an all lead bullet it would be the Bull Shop - crap I forgot this year I am required to use a conical of PRB.
With 90 grains of T7-3f from a Hawken I am shooting that bullet @ 1500 fps. It has a lot of drop to it because of its weight but out to 150 yards it is a performer.
If you would need these bullets for this season - they might be tough to get in such a short time they come from Alaska. You will need .503's for the A&H... but there is a guy in Utah that makes a variety of them that is very close to Bull Shops, they are called No Excuses...
Both of these bullets are slip fit - they go down much like a sabot - no short starter needed...
http://bullshop.gunloads.com/contact.html
http://members.aol.com/nebullets/
Hope you find what you need...
11-15-2007, 05:55 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Elk Bullet Questions and New Gun Question
ORIGINAL: cayugad
The all lead part is the kicker.. In my Black Diamond XR a excellent bullet is the 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB. I also know a person took a very large elk cow shooting 110 grains of Triple Se7en 2f and that SSB out of his Black Diamond. Granted the elk was only about 70 yards as I remember him telling.. and he did not get pass through. The bullet expanded perfect he said, and was under the skin on the other side of the entry wound. The cow managed 30 yards of walking he said, and just dropped. That SSB would be one recommendation.
Another thing you might want to try is the 460 grain .503 No Excuse Conicals. I shoot them out of my Black Diamond XR with excellent results.
This was shot out of the BD at 100 yards off shooting sticks. It was a drizzle day during deer season when I shot that. I was going to go hunt the farm that night instead of the woods I hunted all morning at the other place. The BD has a scope on it. The small hole to the far right is a SSB. I decided to hunt thickets that afternoon so I wanted to get rid of the SSB and decided to check the NO Excuses Conicals at the same time. I never swabbed the barrel the whole time.
The all lead part is the kicker.. In my Black Diamond XR a excellent bullet is the 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB. I also know a person took a very large elk cow shooting 110 grains of Triple Se7en 2f and that SSB out of his Black Diamond. Granted the elk was only about 70 yards as I remember him telling.. and he did not get pass through. The bullet expanded perfect he said, and was under the skin on the other side of the entry wound. The cow managed 30 yards of walking he said, and just dropped. That SSB would be one recommendation.
Another thing you might want to try is the 460 grain .503 No Excuse Conicals. I shoot them out of my Black Diamond XR with excellent results.
This was shot out of the BD at 100 yards off shooting sticks. It was a drizzle day during deer season when I shot that. I was going to go hunt the farm that night instead of the woods I hunted all morning at the other place. The BD has a scope on it. The small hole to the far right is a SSB. I decided to hunt thickets that afternoon so I wanted to get rid of the SSB and decided to check the NO Excuses Conicals at the same time. I never swabbed the barrel the whole time.
