help! Omega stuck patch..
11-12-2007, 09:17 AM
#11
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
RE: help! Omega stuck patch..
i use a patch moistened with Windex with vinegar followed by one or two dry patches. Sometimes i will use a saturated patch if i think there is a lot of crudnear the breech plug. The secret is totake short rapid strokes.
11-12-2007, 10:35 AM
#13
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: help! Omega stuck patch..
L. Clement
I do not mix ammonia with the product at all - it comes with ammonia in it. I do not know what the mixture rate is but it is pretty minimal.
The question of using Windex with Ammonia was posed to Dan Lilja of Lija Precision Barrels,
The other product I am using is Slip 2000 - it is a synthetic cleaner/oil combination...
This is the one I am using....
http://www.slip2000.com/gunlube_info.html
This was developed in response to ML people asking about the available products...
http://www.slip2000.com/blackpowder.html
I do not mix ammonia with the product at all - it comes with ammonia in it. I do not know what the mixture rate is but it is pretty minimal.
The question of using Windex with Ammonia was posed to Dan Lilja of Lija Precision Barrels,
On the road, a bottle of any of the commercial black powder cleaners is handy. That, a handful of patches, your jag, and a small "to go" bottle of Breakfree is all you need. Windex (yes, with ammonia) is a very good bore cleaner.
Dan Lilja of Lilja Precision Rifle barrels has never seen any damage in one of his barrels caused by the use of ammonia. Dan writes: "The rumor is that copper-removing cleaners with ammonia will pit and damage the interior surface of a barrel. Ammonia is very effective as a copper remover. We use solvents, such as Butch's Bore Shine, to remove copper during the break-in. We routinely leave Butch's solution in the barrel over night too. Again, I repeat, we have never seen a problem with ammonia in the concentrations found in commercial cleaners, in either our chrome-moly or stainless steel barrels. This includes examination with our borescope." Black powder enthusiasts have universally praised Dan's personal favorite barrel cleaning solvent, "Butch's Bore Shine."
Dan Lilja of Lilja Precision Rifle barrels has never seen any damage in one of his barrels caused by the use of ammonia. Dan writes: "The rumor is that copper-removing cleaners with ammonia will pit and damage the interior surface of a barrel. Ammonia is very effective as a copper remover. We use solvents, such as Butch's Bore Shine, to remove copper during the break-in. We routinely leave Butch's solution in the barrel over night too. Again, I repeat, we have never seen a problem with ammonia in the concentrations found in commercial cleaners, in either our chrome-moly or stainless steel barrels. This includes examination with our borescope." Black powder enthusiasts have universally praised Dan's personal favorite barrel cleaning solvent, "Butch's Bore Shine."
This is the one I am using....
http://www.slip2000.com/gunlube_info.html
This was developed in response to ML people asking about the available products...
http://www.slip2000.com/blackpowder.html
11-12-2007, 06:15 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 882
RE: help! Omega stuck patch..
I had a few dry patches give me trouble I found to use the tapered end of the ramrod to fit the jag:I also on all my ramrods re-tap a new thread in case I need to use a T puller to remove the stuck patch. Try pulling on a ramrod with your hands and see how far you get trying to remove the stuck jag
I find just water in a spray bottle to dampen the patch and I patch after every shot with my flinters at the range.
I do not run a patch down the bore if I fire a shot while hunting but do blow down the barrel before dropping the new charge seen a guy this year at the range fire a percussion 50 cal. hawkens and wanted to see how fast he could reload for the second shot if needed:I will say as the powder was poured down the barrel the powder did ignite from a few embers left over from the first shot.I have to say I myself never hold the barrel near my face i seem to drop the charge and keep my body on a angle from the bore I never seen this before but anything can happen with real BP.
I read on another post a guy watched a new shooter with a powder horn drop a 1/4 lbs of powder down the bore seem this guy been was watching to many traditional movies:The guy stop him from capping the gun and explain to him you need to use a measure Man I wonder how many grain of powder in a 1/4 lb of black powder is there.
I find just water in a spray bottle to dampen the patch and I patch after every shot with my flinters at the range.
I do not run a patch down the bore if I fire a shot while hunting but do blow down the barrel before dropping the new charge seen a guy this year at the range fire a percussion 50 cal. hawkens and wanted to see how fast he could reload for the second shot if needed:I will say as the powder was poured down the barrel the powder did ignite from a few embers left over from the first shot.I have to say I myself never hold the barrel near my face i seem to drop the charge and keep my body on a angle from the bore I never seen this before but anything can happen with real BP.
I read on another post a guy watched a new shooter with a powder horn drop a 1/4 lbs of powder down the bore seem this guy been was watching to many traditional movies:The guy stop him from capping the gun and explain to him you need to use a measure Man I wonder how many grain of powder in a 1/4 lb of black powder is there.
11-12-2007, 06:45 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 836
RE: help! Omega stuck patch..
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
L. Clement
I personally believe that mouthcaller was a little tough in his statements about bore butter, actually it sounds like he is just repeating the words of a ML expert that does not like the stuff. And his is intitleteled to his beliefs.
I used bb for years and it worked perfectly for me, but i honestly believe it is the manner of application that makes the difference. Convententional wisdom is that you can not season a modern day ordinace steel barrel they way that you could yester-years iron barrel. I believe that is correct, but all metal has pores and I do believe that you aid the barrels ability to reduce fouling through the use of bb, heck I even used it on my trap chokesto help reduce plastic fouling there. It can also reduce the effect of the T7 crud ring at least it has in my bores. But there are risks using it especially if used improperly. It is a water soluable product and it can trap water. I just got out of storage a Lyman Trade Rifle that has been in storage for several years - it was stored after being treated with BB - not even a sign of a problem.
All that said, I do not use bb any longer because I beleive that i have found a better product that does essentially the same thing. Costs a lot more money but in my mind it is worth it, because it adds a little more bore protection and I do not have to worry about tapped water.
I do use the blue windex with ammonia (ammoinia is the striper and the evaporator) and find it works really well for me... I even use it when strip cleaning a rifle - it litterally just melts old T7 residue and blowback off the metal in the breech area.
The key is as mouthcaller says make the patches "moist" - nothing even close to wet...
Good lick in your shooting.... ML shooting will bite you and never let go so get ready for a great experiance which is fun, challenging, rewarding, and frustrating...
L. Clement
I personally believe that mouthcaller was a little tough in his statements about bore butter, actually it sounds like he is just repeating the words of a ML expert that does not like the stuff. And his is intitleteled to his beliefs.
I used bb for years and it worked perfectly for me, but i honestly believe it is the manner of application that makes the difference. Convententional wisdom is that you can not season a modern day ordinace steel barrel they way that you could yester-years iron barrel. I believe that is correct, but all metal has pores and I do believe that you aid the barrels ability to reduce fouling through the use of bb, heck I even used it on my trap chokesto help reduce plastic fouling there. It can also reduce the effect of the T7 crud ring at least it has in my bores. But there are risks using it especially if used improperly. It is a water soluable product and it can trap water. I just got out of storage a Lyman Trade Rifle that has been in storage for several years - it was stored after being treated with BB - not even a sign of a problem.
All that said, I do not use bb any longer because I beleive that i have found a better product that does essentially the same thing. Costs a lot more money but in my mind it is worth it, because it adds a little more bore protection and I do not have to worry about tapped water.
I do use the blue windex with ammonia (ammoinia is the striper and the evaporator) and find it works really well for me... I even use it when strip cleaning a rifle - it litterally just melts old T7 residue and blowback off the metal in the breech area.
The key is as mouthcaller says make the patches "moist" - nothing even close to wet...
Good lick in your shooting.... ML shooting will bite you and never let go so get ready for a great experiance which is fun, challenging, rewarding, and frustrating...
Sabotloader - I am reminded of the Wizard of Oz's reply to Dorothy in responding to your comment about my post, "My child, you cut me to the quick".
Firstly, most everything Iinitailly learnedabout muzzleloader shooting has been gained from reading this forum, with about 80+ percent of that directly attributable to you and Cayugad.I am, and remain, profoundly indebted to you both for your generosity in sharing your knowledge so freely. I am currently using the Gold Dot 300gr bulletbecause of your recommendations and have now taken4 deer (including a doe this past Thursday and another last year at 172 yards) since learning of this remarkable bullet from you. The MPP-24 sabot that I am using in my Omega is also one of the tidbits of knowledge I gained from you as well. I respect your opinion greatly and obviously follow your advice.
With that said, my comments about Bore-butter are mine alone and not another ML expert (which I by no means claim to be). I am a pharmacist by training, so I can't understand how a water-soluble product (with cationic charges on the surface) can protect against water intrusion from a scientific perspective. My friend, an experienced hunter and gun owner (the best coyote hunter I know with years of experience with guns) truly had the bore of his Omega rust upon storing it this summer with BB. Additionally, I find amusing the attempt of T/C to sell this product for modern muzzleloaders shooting plastic sabots as a necessity in order to "seasonthe barrel like a cast iron skillet".
I have read your previous comments concerning your use of BB to close the pores of a hot barrel during shooting sessions at the range and that makes some sense to me, so I remain open to learning more about the proper use of Bore Butter.
In my world ofacademicsit is OK for folks to have a difference ofopinion and remain friends.
Mouthcaller
11-12-2007, 07:32 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
RE: help! Omega stuck patch..
Wow, it never ceases to amaze me as to how many ways there are to do the same thing.
It's like....never mind I digress
That being said, here is what I do with my Omega. I only shoot T7 2f out of it with a Win 209 primer. Sabots of different varieties, the most recent being 300 gr Nosler Partitions. It really likes them. After the hunts are over, I'm going to get to work on the .458 45-70 bullets and the 300 gr Hornady SST's and the sabots that Sabotloader so graciously sent me.
Cleaning
I clean useing a few water patches to get most of the powder residue out. Then dry.I follow that up with Hoppes # 9 to further clean powder, but more importantly to get the plastic out. A few very wet Hoppes patchesthen the brush, then dry patches and repeat until the plastic doesn't show up any more. Rinse brush well with hot water. Hoppes likes to eat copper as well.Dry the bore then apply CLP (Breakfree).
Pre-Range / Hunt
Before the hunt or range, I run several dry patches through then I run several wet Windex/Isopropyl Alcohol patches, then somedry. Load and fire or go hunting. At the range, I'll swab one wet (and I mean wet) Windex/Isopropyl Alcohol and two dry patches, load and fire. I like to twirl the range rod down near the breech where you can feel the constriction from the crud ring. (That is why my patch is wet, to clear up the crud ring.)The dry patches are recycled and used as wet / dry patches for subsequent shots.Hunting it is just a damp patch, load and shoot ata treebecause the deer is dead.
It's like....never mind I digressThat being said, here is what I do with my Omega. I only shoot T7 2f out of it with a Win 209 primer. Sabots of different varieties, the most recent being 300 gr Nosler Partitions. It really likes them. After the hunts are over, I'm going to get to work on the .458 45-70 bullets and the 300 gr Hornady SST's and the sabots that Sabotloader so graciously sent me.
Cleaning
I clean useing a few water patches to get most of the powder residue out. Then dry.I follow that up with Hoppes # 9 to further clean powder, but more importantly to get the plastic out. A few very wet Hoppes patchesthen the brush, then dry patches and repeat until the plastic doesn't show up any more. Rinse brush well with hot water. Hoppes likes to eat copper as well.Dry the bore then apply CLP (Breakfree).
Pre-Range / Hunt
Before the hunt or range, I run several dry patches through then I run several wet Windex/Isopropyl Alcohol patches, then somedry. Load and fire or go hunting. At the range, I'll swab one wet (and I mean wet) Windex/Isopropyl Alcohol and two dry patches, load and fire. I like to twirl the range rod down near the breech where you can feel the constriction from the crud ring. (That is why my patch is wet, to clear up the crud ring.)The dry patches are recycled and used as wet / dry patches for subsequent shots.Hunting it is just a damp patch, load and shoot ata treebecause the deer is dead.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Sharp Shooter
Black Powder
4
07-24-2006 11:13 AM
