Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Look what I made today. And it freicking works too!!!! Idaho legal inline conversion for my Whites. This type of thing could be adapted to a lot of different inline guns.

Need to fashion a spring to keep the "Hammer" against the "Plunger". Just went to WallyWorld and bought a pack of diaper pins, I think I kin make a spring from one a those.

Started with a piece of 1/8"x2" hot roll flat stock, hack sawed it into an L, put it in the drill vice and heated it with a tourch and bent it into form. Was nice to have this POS Luisiana rust bucket barrel I got stuck with from an on line auction, to use as a mandrel to bend the orange hot metal around the round part. Been tinkerin with it since lunch. Need to polish it a bit and file the top edge level. Then I need to decide what to do for a finish. Could try to cold blue it or just paint it.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

goatbrother

Isn't it the craps we are forced to do something like this - but is does say "pivoting Hammer" certainly looks that way to me....

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Yes, it is crap that you have to have a pivoting hammer, but you got one for sure.. There is a White Lightening .504 for sale over on William Gun Site company:

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/813usedblkpowderguns.htm

SS with scope and sabots for $195, sounds like a deal to me. Chap

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Are you actually shooting that rifle?

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Heck no I ain't shootin that rifle. That is just a junk piece of iron that a fine upstanding gentelman from New Orelens sold me in an internet auction, he said the bore was perfect and no rust. NO RUST!!! As you can see the barrel is no longer fit to be a gun, ain't even got any rifling left inside. But it worked just fine as a pattern for fitting the IDAHO TRAD CONVERSION.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Looks like hurricane katrina got it:D

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Pre Katrina, by about three weeks. I hope that sorry slob that sold it to me had lots of problems after Katrina flooded him out.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

This will be a little easier on the eyes.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Good job...nowthat's what I'd call progress! :D

Maybe you'd liketofreshen up that rifling now?

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

The trigger alone is worth that much!!!! ;)

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Goatbrother,

You've got talent but I figure most won't go to that trouble. Maybe you could commercialize it? There are some differences though. The spring holds the hammer in cocked position, instead of on the nipple. The trigger doesn't trip the hammer and the hammer really doesn't cock. It would depend on the jury i think. Whether they are inliners or not. In any event, juries usually decide with the "authorities" ;).

You have alot of talent. If you don't already own one, I bet you could fashion an absolutely beautiful traditional rifle.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Beautiful, we have some gunsmiths in our mist. Neat idea. Chap Gleason

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

That rifle is sold anyway (William's). They don't appear to update their lists very often.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Goatbrother - your ingenuity is commendable. Your very talented in metal fabrication. I wish I had your skills.

Still Iwonder if the Idaho Fish and Game might find some flaw in their over all description of legal or not,to outlaw your design. Have you looked into a mule ear lock and examined if that type of application could be modified to fit your rifle? It is really nothing more then a percusson hammer mounted sideways. I personally think the people responsible for your regulation changes simply went after inline rifles to rid them from the season. Whether this was done for herd management, sport of the chase, political pressure groups, or just someone in authority with little knowledge and personal issues... who really knows.

When I first heard of the Idaho changes, I remember a rifle Doc built that I felt would be perfect for the Idaho problem. If you remember, he built a traditional percussion cap rifle but used the .504 barrel to do so. I always admired that rifle. I thought how excellent it would be to mount a quality peep sight on it and then then go out there and throw large conical bullets with the kind of accuracy these White Rifles are capable of.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Pglasgow

It is ironic... the rule as written for Idaho states... the gun must have a pivoting hammer.... it states nothing about the fuction - the reasonable assumption is that it must function. In fact a couple of the commissioners have pointed this out. And you know what a good lawyer could do with an assumption....

Another person in Boise has modifiyed hisEncore with a factory pivoting hammer to shoot #11 caps... this also fits within the letter but not the spirit of the rule...

The whole ML thing will be re-visited befre next season. I am sure there will be changes again - just not sure what they will be. For myself the current and even the previous rules make a little difference, but since I hate almost totally with a ML now - it does not hit as hard as it did some. Moving from a rifle like myWhite, scoped, 209 ignitedand shooting sabots, to the my Renegade withopen sights, a GM LRH barrel, and Bull Shop conical for a very short ML season really is not that big a difference.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Sabotloader,

I thought they left your unit as it was. Did that change?

Regarding goatbrother's adaptation, he definitely displayed skill. But like you I'm not sure it would not be challenged by game officials. Personally, I would never hunt with it unless I had written clarification from IGF that it meets the requirements in their own judgement. Otherwise, I think it likely that one may have to defend himself against prosecution.

Also, my suggestion that goatbrother could fashion a beautiful traditional was absolutely genuine. He definitely has the skill for it.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Pglasgow

No nothing much is "as it was" Idaho previoulsy had the near perfect rules for a diverse population... those have been thrown out and now there is TWO rules - makes it easier to administer...

My unit on the Palouse remained ML hunting, which now rules out what was then called an Idaho legal inline, and the unit next door (50 miles east) is now a "Short Range" season which allows anything loaded from the muzzle.

The "BIGGEST" problem IMO - is the "belief" that one thing is so much better than another or the "belief" that it is suppose to happen my way or no way at all...

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

I been working this idea in my head since last year when they anounced the changes. Then I went and bought two Kahnke guns, but I just couldn't get them to shoot the conicals to my liking. Before I bought the Kahnke's I started collecting parts to build a new gun that would use a TC lock and a Knight/GM tapred, flutted SS barrel on a full length walnut stock.


The gun above would make the 3rd from scratch for me.


Gun #1, 50 cal, never did complete the underrib or RR ferrels.

Gun #2, has a 54 cal CVA barrel, plain maple stock, all metal parts except for the lock, trigger and sights are hand made.

Then I changed my mind about using the Knight/GM barrel in a full stock, it would cover too much of that nice looking barrel so I think I will keep an eye out for a 58 cal barrel for that stock. My thinking is if Idaho keeps going the TRAD route I will have an effective roundball gun then. But I have another idea for the Knight/GM barrel, I happen to have a very nice piece of AA curly maple that I would like to fit to an Allen Box Lock and install the Knight/GM barrel to it.



And build something kinda like this but with a pistol grip stock and peep sights.


I may take my Trad convesion in to F&G and see if they have an opinion, the rules just say "Pivoting Hammer". So to me that is a very vague discription, it doesn't say it has to be mounted on the side, it doesn't say it has to even hit the nipple or function in any certain manner.

[align=left]Muzzleloader-Only Season[/align][align=left]Any person hunting in a muzzleloader-only season,[/align][align=left]including controlled hunts, must have in possession their[/align][align=left]license with muzzleloader permit validation.[/align][align=left]During a muzzleloader-only season, it is illegal to pursue[/align][align=left]or kill a big game animal with any firearm, muzzleloading pistol,[/align][align=left]or weapon other than a muzzleloading rifle or musket.[/align][align=left]In addition, the muzzleloading rifle or musket must be:[/align][align=left]• Capable of being loaded only from the muzzle.[/align][align=left]• Equipped with only open or peep sights.[/align][align=left]• Loaded only with loose black powder, loose Pyrodex, or[/align][align=left]other loose synthetic black powder. Pelletized powders are[/align][align=left]prohibited[/align][align=left]• Equipped with a single or double-barrel.[/align][align=left]• Loaded with a projectile with a diameter with .010 inch of[/align][align=left]the bore diameter. Sabots are prohibited[/align][align=left]• Loaded with a patched round ball or conical non-jacketed[/align][align=left]projectile comprised wholly of lead or lead alloy.[/align][align=left]• Equipped only with a flint, percussion cap or musket cap.[/align][align=left]209 primers are prohibited.[/align][align=left]• Equipped with an exposed pivoting hammer and have an[/align]exposed ignition system.

What I still don't understand about the pivoting hammer rule is just what the heck difference does it make? Maybe I should take my converted White to the gun range and shoot it over the cronograph to see how much performance I will lose due to the "Pivoting Hammer". Certainly it must be some kind of a performance impediment.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Gee, just was looking at the IDFG site and read this.



[align=center]IDAHO FISH AND GAME
MAGIC VALLEY REGION NEWS RELEASE
Jerome, ID[/align]




Date:
October 22, 2007

Contact:
Kelton Hatch
(208) 324-4359


mule deer hunters enjoy success


Mule deer hunters in southern Idaho enjoyed a 24-percent harvest success for the opening weekend of the general hunting season, Idaho Department of Fish and Game check station data show.
In the Magic Valley Region, game management unit 43 had the highest success rate for general buck hunts - 390 hunters checked took 88 bucks for 22.6-percent success. Success rates were closer to 17 percent in units 48 and 49.
"Overall I felt the opening weekend of deer season was successful," said Regan Berkley, regional wildlife biologist. "The weather was not as hot and dry as we've had the last several years, and hunters were seeing lots of deer. At all the check stations we checked some nice bucks and talked to a lot of happy hunters."
Hunter success was lower in controlled hunts in the Magic Valley Region. Heavy snow in the mountains and lots of rain in the valleys dampened the weekend hunt. For units 44, 45, 52, 54, and 55, hunters had an 18.3-percent success rate, a decrease of 10 percent from 2006.
Hunter success was very high in controlled antlerless hunts. Hunters in units 43, 48, and 49 boasted a 58.9-percent success rate, while either-sex youth hunters were 31 percent successful.
"During the past several years, fawn survival has been high, resulting in increased deer populations in most Magic Valley units," Berkley said. "With the good hunting conditions we're having this year; hunters are able to reap the benefits of the increase in populations."


Well, last year they were blaming the muzzleloaders for depleting the mule deer population and saying how the number of animals was down. Now they are telling us that there is an increase in populations of mule deer. ????

I think someone at IDFG is talking out both ends, their mouth and their arse. This just supports my opinion that the muzzleloader changes were not due to some mythical performance difference in the guns but a political move based on the apperance of the guns.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Goat,

Beautiful creation! I'd hunt with it, without batting an eye;) Meets all the criteria--Go for it!

Well done.


.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

GB-Smurf

Have you heard about any meetings to discuss the future of ML hunting in Idaho??? I keep watching the commiss meetings - but they seem to be avaoiding it like a plague...

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

I got a reply to an email last week.

The Commission will consider changes to the muzzleloader equipment rules
in January. The Department will solicit public comment on a proposal
(currently being developed) in December. There will be public meetings
held throughout the state, and a press release announcing opportunity
for public review and comment. We'll also post information regarding
potential changes on our website.

I do anticipate changes for 2008, at a minimum allowing in-line
muzzleloaders.

Bradley B. Compton
State Big Game Manager
Idaho Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25, 600 S. Walnut
Boise, ID 83707
(208) 334-2920
[font=""][email protected][/font]

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

GB-Smurf

Thanks - I just sent him an e-mail also... I want to get sabots back also... If PA allows the use of sabots in their ML hunts even their flintlock hunts it seems to me Idaho with the greater ranges could allow it...

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Now this is a Traditional Rifle:D

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Goatbrother,
I think you have made yer self a good Traditional Rifle there.
That Knot Hole Stock must have been a real chore to find there. I been lookin at a maple with a Knot hole in it to try thatsame thing;)

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

MANY things go in cycles. MANY "smart" people are too "smart" to remember that little fact.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Smoke and mirrors, just as I suspected all along.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Shore do look like a real PITA you went to when a decent sidelock rifle with a scope on it would have done the same thing for you!

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

But you see, I own 10 White inlines and no flintlocks. A flinter would have cost ????? and my little device cost less than $5.00. This whole rule change in Idaho was the result of a small vocal group who have thier nose out of joint because they can't stand to have anyone hunt with a gun that does not look like thier fantasy world idea of what a muzzleloader should look like. Never mind that both styles of gun, given like projectile and powder charge will perform the same (velocity, energy and trajectory). Add to that a F&G department and commissioneers thatare willing to lie about overharvests and game population numbers in order to facilitate a vocal few.

I am an AMERICAN and I will not be treated like some kind of crimminal or other low life second or third class citizen just because I choose to hunt with a modern looking gun.

BTW, your beautiful scoped rifle would not be allowedin any tradtionalmuzzleloader season in Idaho, too bad cause it sure does shoot good. And your velocity numbers make my point, that it matters not the mechanism that lights the fire. Your load is a stout one but very accurate, your target also sugests that you are an excellent marksman too.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

GB-Smurf

I can not understand why more people do not understand that very simple statement.

To many people believe all that magnum advertising companies do to sale there products...

My Idaho White ( a GM-LRH-SS barrel in a Renegade stock) will do most everything that any then legal Idaho inline will do - maybe even better... but it just doesn't look right...

When I was out shooting last week, shooting a regular renegade, I was joined by to traditional hunters coming off the hill. They were both using traditional flintlocks shooting PRB's. When I complained about the new rules in Idaho - they seemed hurt because the way it is now is the ML hunting is suppose to be. When I said I think things will be reversed next year - they bowed their back a little bit and said"we hope not" I contiued to shoot the Renegade as they watched... and it was one of those days when it was shooting real well... think it impressed them a bit but finally they asked if would like to shoot there flintlocks, they were done hunting and need to shoot the load out anyway... Naturally, since I love to shoot, I jumped all over that chance.... They then walked over to their ATV's and took the rifles out of the racks and I shot them. They shot great... but I wanted to say so bad "I wonder if the traditional fore-fathers had 4 wheelers to get to their traditional hunts" So what is traditional for some things may not be traditional for others...

"Frustrating"

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

The best ML group I have ever shot was not with my scoped inlines but with my peep sight equipt Lyman GPH 50 with 460 NE conicals, 3 shot group measured .28" at 75 yards. The closest I have come with my scoped rifles is .5" at 100 yards with 348 Powerbelts. Out of the 7 ML'ers I have (3 inlines and 4 sidelocks), I find very little difference in performance when Loaded similarly. I even have usable round ball loads for the inlines. The type of sights on some of the guns has more to do with the grouping capability than the action type. To meit seems they confuse form for function when it comes to inline vs "traditional". I also think the shooter has more to do with the performance than the action type. Just my 2 cents.

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

Good new, at least it is for me. Just got an email from IDFG, I took my gun in to them 2 weeks ago to show them my pivot hammer modification. They took pictures and forwarded them to the tech commity. The tech commity has ruled that my devise is not what they had in mind when pivot hammer rule was made but went on to say that my devise meets the criteria for an exposed pivoting hammer and thus is legal to use during the traditional muzzleloading season. So I can go hunting now. I'm going to make a copy of the email and have it laminated to carry with my while hunting.:D

RE: Attention Idaho Inliners.
 

goatbrother.. congratulations on the ruling. So are you taking orders in Idaho soon? :D:D:D

Good luck in your muzzleloading season with your traditional inline rifle.