Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

Does anybody know what the practical difference is between nickel and stainless steel? I'm thinking about getting my first muzzleloader to add two more weekends to my hunting season. I don't want to spend $250+ on a muzzleloader, but there are a couple for less than that that are either stainless or nickel. One is a CVA Wolf or a CVA Optima. The NEF Sidekick comes in stainless. Given that I will probably only use the thing a couple of times each season, I'm leaning toward going with the Knight Wolverine package and head to the woods with that.

Are we just playing word games here coutesy of the marketing folks? Is one more durable than the other or are they one in the same?

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

xd9x19

In my mind there is a significant difference between Nickle and Stainless with Stainless winning that competition hands down.... Nickle is just a finish applied to the barrel - stainless is stainless all the way through... Again in my mind I would prefer Stainless, then blued, then nickel...

of the three guns you listed - the optima is probably the most modern (newer features) than the Wolf or the Knight with the Knight possibly being the better. I am not much into the NEF - it can get really dirty in the breech area.

Another you might want to look at is the TC Black Diamond



and the Knight Big Horn



Hope I have not confused the issue.... but I have one more thought you can get an Omega Z5 which is a top quality rifle fairly inexpensively and it be a gun you can used when you really get hooked on ML's...



$286 @ Buds...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_440/products_id/17877

I thought I could find one for $250 - they are out there...

Might check this page out...

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/complete_eeb.htm

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

When I went "window shopping" last year, I narrowed it down to a Thompson Omega Z5. Sort of flip-flopping at the moment. May ask Santa for money and get this one - Thompson Omega Z5 Premium Pack. I like the cost of the Wolverine, but I think I'd be happier with the ease-of-use of either a break-open or the pivoting action of the Omega.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

xd9x19

That really is a good setup in my opinion... I really believe you would be more happy with this gun into the future than you would be with the others you mentioned...

Make sure it is OK in your hunting area to use 209 primers and sabots...

To be honest there are some things that I would change on the basic gun...

1. If you start shooting the gun a lot then you may want to get a 25ACP ignition system - much cleaner than the 209's...
2. The plastic compsit stock MIGHT cause you a problem down the road but the problem is easily fixed with a bit of sand paper.
3. The new barrel MAY be really tight... PowerBelts will go down just fine but a bullet/sabot combination might be really tight. You will probably need to purchase MMP HPH-3p-EZ load sabots or Harvester crush rib sabots until you get the barrel broken in...

Good luck in what ever you choose... give a shout if I can be of any help...

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

I own a Wolverine ... they are a great rifle. They might take five minutes more to clean then the other rifles. The Knight has a Green Mountain Barrel. Timney Trigger. And a great warranty.

That is a good deal on that Knight kit. I would sure lean that way.

Also the difference between nickel and stainless is like Sabotloader said, stainless is stainless. Nickel is a blued barrel with a finish on it. The nickel will stain and other then looks nice, is nothing to get too excited about in my opinion. That Knight would be all the rifle you would ever need, but you have to make the decision on what you want. I sure like mine.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

Probably gonna come down to whether or not I buy it for myself or get money from "Santa". If I keep my list short, I can get a good bit of green from the parents.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

xd9x19

You have no idea how many folks have bought their first muzzleloader with this very statement in mind, including myself. First one was Lyman Trade Rifle, then a CVA Firebolt, then a Remington 700 and now I am embarassed to tell you how many ML's that I have. In the last 7 years I could count on two fingers the number of times that I have returned to a centerfire to hunt with. The ML bug has bitten me and others real hard... so that is why I hestitate recommending the least expensive ML's... get a very good one with a very good warranty that you can rely on in futures years and all weather conditions... it is addictive!!!!

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

While stainless is harder and offers an advantage to centerfire bullet shooters. I'm not sure how much of a disadvantage a high quality electro nickel plating is. I say this with all due respect because sabots are made out of plastic anda nickelinterior barrelfinish appears to be slicker than plain steel....so maybenickel produces less friction.
Not every steel barreled gun that I've bought has beenwell finished and mirror polished. Some barrels have lots of striations left in the steel from the rifling process, andthe nickel plating just may smooth them out.Even stainlesssteel can rust if it's neglected too much. Stainless probably costsseveral times more than nickel. Sopeople get whatthey pay for, and a nickeled barrelcosts more than aregular steel barrel model. It offers something, just like chrome lined barrels do. Sure stainless probablylasts longer, but what if plastic slides over nickel with less friction?If Traditions offers nickel instead of stainless, then it's probably not as good as stainless, but it doesn't mean that nickel is bad.
Nickel makes a gun more affordable than stainless,and more rust resistant thanplain steel.So how bad is it?

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

my cva hunterbolt is nickle plated , its been used , abused , and neglected , yet it shows no signs of rust anywhere .

ive sat in the rain / sleet with it more than once , and forgot to do more than dry it off at the truck , and still no rust .

i'd buy a nickle plated gun again without even thinking about it ..............MIKE



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RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

My nickel plated CVA Staghorn magnum has held up very well. The only mark is near the 209 primer where it stained or burned, what ever. I have tried countless things to remove that spot. Now I notice the outside of the barrel is starting to discolor, but for what I paid for the rifle, I am not going to complain. Its a great shooter.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

xd9x19,

What would be great for you, is if you have friend or family who could loan you a rifle until the clearances begin in December. At that time, your buck will buy much more. Last year, I bought a stainless APEX for $180 (with cabela's $20 dollar off coupon). Retailed for $400, and is a sweet shooter.

Then a couple of weeks later, my Dad bought the same rifle for $160 (cause I negotiated another $20 on the phone for him).

As for stainless, it really is fantastic and I would urge you to pay the difference. It's worth it.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

Some times the way you come into a good price on a good gun can be different. I ordered my Triumph right after I first seen the advertisment, I kept going back to the dealers for months and monthswaiting til I was begining to wonder, he finaly called and said its here;when we opened the box it was a black stock with a blue barrel, I ordered a camo stock with the new finish. The dealer said ,oh no now what do I do; I said sell it to me for your cost and I'll take it anyway, he said OK, so I paid less for my new Triump than you will normally pay for a new Z5, and I got my Omega a couple years a go at a Walmart end of the season sale for $150 so just keep your eyes open and some money in your pocket[ I almost bought another Omega the same way for $160 but could not figure out what I would do with two,it is a good thing I did not I dont shoot it much since I got the Triumph. Lee

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

May do that. I'm thinking I'll just ask for greenbacks for Christmas and try to pick one up on sale after the season. Only 1 weekend of muzzleloader left before Christmas anyway.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

Is the Thompson 'Weathershield' just a nickel plated barrel like the CVA Optima/Wolf?

Cabela's has the standard Omega Z5 on sale for $250. Bud's Gun Shop has the Z5 starter package for $309 delivered, the Weathershield version (coated barrel, which I assume is nickel) for $315 and the stainless Z5 for $389. For someone who might use his ml no more than 6 tiems a year for hunting, is the stainless worth an extra $70 over the weathershield.

***

Edited to add: Cabela's has the Omega Z5 starter package on sale for $280. Would the deals be better than this after Christmas or the first of the year?

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

xd9x19

It is hard to say what the deals are going to do.

They have that Omega with the starter kit for $269 I believe it was at my local Wal Mart but don't quote me. What will happen is after hunting season, stores like Wal Mart will dump their inventory. People were getting Omega's for $169.00 last year I believe it was. Some even cheaper. It was a buying frenzy. Will you have stores in your area that do that... who knows?

As for, is the stainless barrel worth it for someone that might shoot it six timesa year? While having the stainless would be nice, without a doubt... probably not. That blue barrel will shoot just as good, and have just as good a guarantee. If you take care of the barrel properly, that thing will probably outlast you. I personally like blue barrels. I also like the stainless steel. If the stainless steel does not mean that much to you, why spend the money for it?

Let me ask you a question. How bad do you want your own rifle? If you want one bad and only want to shoot to 100 yards, and shoot maybe 6 times a year.. do you really need an Omega? A simple CVA Buckhorn Magnum for $99.99 at Wal Mart will do all of that and then some. The simple CVA is a no nonsense rifle with some nice features and I think one of the more easy to clean. Although I have never cleaned an Omega. But my CVA Staghorn which is the Buckhorn with one less locking lug, takes me about 15 minutes to clean and have back on the rack. Have you ever pulled a firing pin on an Omega. Do you have to? And as for that starter kit.. a waste of money IMO.

Buy yourself a simple rifle to hunt with now, or the Omega. What ever you want to spend. Christmas is coming and we should not spend all our money on ourselves right now. After all the January clearance sale will be here. We are going to need some more.

Then get a powder measure, a short starter, some breech brushed, the rifle comes with a ramrod and loading/cleaning jag. Then get some bullets in bulk and sabots in bulk. You have a lot more stuff to shoot for a lot less money. That starter kit gives you 15 rounds I believe it is and three loader tubes. BIG DEAL :eek:.Like they are really making a deal for you. Fifteen rounds would not probably get you sighted in, and familiar with your rifle. You can buy the same bullets at the same store. $11.99 for 15 shockwaves and sabots. You would still need to get lots of other things not included in the starter kit. Get the rifle, get what you need to shoot and clean it, then watch for end of the season sales and pick up all the things you really do not need but want. Scopes, rings, mounts, range rod, more cleaning brushes, solvents, patches, jags, bullets, sabots, etc.

Start socking away money. Later on or when you see a good deal, then get the rifle of your dreams like a Triumph, or stainless steel Omega or a Savage, or a Knight Rolling Block stainless, or who knows. Use the other one as a back up. Because that simple rifle will get you hooked in this sport and pretty soon you will have to own wall racks full of the things to be satisfied. And I am still not satisfied.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

Cayugad, thanks for the input. For the amount of use that I will most likely get out of it, it would probably be a better use of my funds to get something less expensive. I might just drop down and get a CVA Wolf, possibly in the nickel version which can be had for $200. I've been to Sportsman's Warehouse here in town and the Wolf was quite agreeable when I held it. The shorter barrel (24") would also be good in the woods where I hunt. Won't be making any 100+ yard shots with it anyway.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

I have had many nickel plated weapons. Rifles don't show the wear as much, but pistols definitely show some wear after a year in a shoulder holster. I would take stainless hands down if it is purely a matter of preference.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

For the money the NEF Sidekick is absolutely impossible to beat. You can get it with a black stock and stainless steel barrel for $250. It is a high quality gun and very accurate. My father has one and he loves it and i love it too. I shoot knights myself and love them to death but I must admit the sidekick is a mighty fine gun for only $250.

EDIT: Heck for that matter i have a Knight Bighorn with camo stock and stainless barrel that you can have for $125 plus shipping. It does have some pitting in the barrel but it has never affected how it shoots. I will throw in the rings if you want them but I put the scope on my new knight disc elite.

RE: Nickel vs stainless steel????
 

Thanks for the offer. I'll consider it, but after holding some of the muzzleloaders last night at Bass Pro, I think I want to go another route. Probably either a CVA Optima or Thompson Omega.

I did discover that he Weathershield one the Thompson rifles appears to be just an external coating. The inside of the barrel appeared to me to be the normal black. I guess that's why there's only a $30 difference between the Weathershield version and the black.