hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

I went to the range to do my final tune to my muzzleloader. I was fire 240 gr xtp with mag express sabots under 85 grs of paradex p at 100yrds. my shot where all over the place some did not even hit the target. I was shooting nice groups last week with the same bullet/powder combo but it was in the mid 70's overcast and slite breeze but today almost 30 degrees cooler clear and little to no wind.

I desided to go on and work with another load (230 gr surefire sabot at 75 grs and 80 grs of pyrodex p) that grouped well left of center and about 1 3/4 group at 50 yrds. I changed sabots on the 240 gr xtp to mmp under 85grs of pyrodex p. I got the same group with that load as the 230 gr surefires sabot under 80grs.

now that out of the way.

does some loads like differnt loads?

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

NO MESSAGE

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

I think what you are saying is.. can temperature effect the way a bullet shoots? Well the answer is yes, there does seem to be an indication that drastic changes of temperature can effect bullet flight. I sometimes wonder though, are we changing the way we do things. We wear different thickness clothing, we react to the cold body wise in differnt ways, etc.

Take the rifle, find a load and stick with it. Normally once you get that tuned in, even cold weather should not effect too much. Once you have a meat and potatoes load, then you can play and tryall the other stuff.

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

corey012778

Corey, just my thoughts so do not necessarily jump on them, usually for me ML's do shoot better when it is cooler outside, especially when shooting sabots. The one thing that kinda sticks out gor me is the powder charge that you are using. Again for me only, I have not had the best of luck shooting light charges with the lighter bullets. I guess I would suggest bumping up your charge to at least 90 grains of Pyro and probably 100 would actually give you better accuracy + velocity. I am shooting T7-2f so my velocities will be a little different than yours if you are shooting a Pyro powder. I normally shoot 100 gtains of T7 from my inlines and 80 grains from a sidelock true Renegade.

For me, the added pressure/velocity of the greater charge creates a better gas seal with the sabot/projectile combination. and still of course the biggest effect on accuracy is the condition of the bore...

mike

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

I agree with Sabotloader, and I will add this when you are using a charge that borders on shooting good and it is to light to quite get the harmonics quiteright, is the most commen problem when you groups go awall our a temputer chage in that range, enough extreme heat makes the sabot softer now that can be difficult to deal with very far below "0" can also create problems; but most of the time if you have the harmonics right [read right load if not familier with harmonics] the tempture change you are refering to should improve groups not blow them. Lee

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

I am hoping for one more range session before opening day, I did spend 4 hours at the range, so it could of me being tired. I shot a lot of lead (about 150 rounds in 4 guns). I will retry my loads again, I will just work on my ML next time.

I got a little scared with charges over 85 grs after getting popped in the head with the scope. but I may bump up it to 90 to 95 grs and see of I can get it back to where I had it, and better I hope. just a bad day. I am going to have to work with the 230 gr, a little cheaper, and my wife won't let me (right now) buy a bulk of bullets. sucks but I live

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

corey012778

I doubt that you will even notice the difference in recoil from 85 to 100 with a 230/240 grain bullet. A lot is made of the recoil of ML's but i guess so far I really have not felt that difference... I thought I saw on your list of guns that were shooting a 12 guage... well i do not find the recoil any more than a solid hunting load from the 12 guage. When you get up in the heavier bullets then you may start feeling recoil.

Just some random thoughts.... If you feel yourself guessing when the gun is going to go off and reacting to that guess...- time to quit for awhile....

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

Trigger pull length too short?
Scope not correctly positioned?
Not keeping stock tight against shoulder?
Wrong type scope with out enough eye relief?
240 gr bullet with 100gr or less should not cause that " popped in the head" you need to loacte what ever else it is, it maybe causing accuracy difficulty sometimes.
Lee

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

ok the list of guns I was using. no 12 ga sold it for ML gear.

usak w/recoil pad 3-9 x 50 (need a longer eye relief) "bingo" (20 loads)
sks 3-9 x 40 (need a longer eye relief or longer stock) (20 rounds)
9mm feg (browning hi power clone) (100 rounds)
savage 110 /no recoil pad 3-9 x 50 (10 rounds)

I think I have taken too main blows to the head in my life I sould of figured out myself, I took a blow to the head with sks because of the eye relief that day (more like need a longer stock for it).

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

A lot of people that have not shot muzzleloaders much dont realize that a minmum of 4 inch eye relief is best; in a muzzleloader the weight of the powder adds to the recoil and the recoil is longer and has a different time period than a high powerd rifle, therefore the eye relief and trigger pull length are more critical than a high powder. Lee

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

You shouldn't require too much extra powder using Pyrodex P because it's about 10% stronger than RS or BP ffg. 90 grains or soshould be enough to equal 100 grains of BP.

Shooting off a bench places the stock in a different position on the shoulder then when shooting offhand sometimes. The same with the eye and cheek position on the stock in relation to the reticle. It's possible that this can cause a noticiable variation on the point of impact on the target downrange.This happens to me at short range oftenenoughwhen I sight in my airguns on precision targets. I usually need to resight shooting offhand afterward. It's very frustrating.
Also, Pyrodex is relatively more sensitive to compacting pressure when the sabot is seated.
Still another factor is barrel temperature. After the first shot the barrel warms up, and now the temperature is even cooler when the first hunting shot will be taken. It's better to fine tune the gun when the outside temp. is closer to the actualtemperature of the barrel during hunting season.
I try not to look at groups so much but at the first shot accuracy out of a cold clean barrel.
It may mean swabbing and waiting 10 minutes between shots so that in the end after sighting in, you're only checking forfirst shot accuracy.
If a rifle is placed further out (or down)on the arm when shouldered, there is a natural tendency for the reticle to shoot to the left of the previous point of aim when the rifle was mounted on the shoulder closer to the neck. At least that's how it works for me because I shoot right handed. I often compensate by aiming to the right of the bullseye, even after re-sighting in off-hand, and I usually alsotry to shoulder the gun closer to myneck/head by pressing my cheek tighter into the stock. Realizing this helps the shooter to learn to shoulder the gun closer to the same placeeach time to keep the reticle lined up closer to the original sighting inpoint-whichshouldlead to shootingmorestraight on.
I hope that you/everyone understands what I'm saying. Scopes are only a sighting tool, and they are not inherently perfect in design. Where once places their eye and cheek when it's sighted in needs to be repeated consistently in order for the scope to maintain it's perfect zero. Move the gun more out on the arm, and it just may shoot left if you are right handed. This doesn't necessarily happen with every scope and every mounting, but the potential for it to happen this way is always there if the scope is low, or the field is narrow or the lens extra large, or the scope lense is not really high end, etc...'Nuff said I hope.

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

I get what your saying, one thing I am going to try is switching hands, I will do it first with another gun just to see if I can still do it. it has been about a year since I shot left handed. My right shoulder is bad and keeps me from holding the gun right, either way, but nothing can hurt now.

RE: hot or warm days vs cooler day
 

there was one thing I was thinking about today while at work. when doing anything sitting or standing, being comfortable is very importent. I remembered how comfortable I as when I first shot at a 100 yrds and I also remember I had the seat lower then it was the day I shot chitty. I would love to try that load again, but I only have 5 left of the 240 xtp, so I gotta work with the other load I have. I got 30 + of them.

But no matter what, it was not the load, gun, scope, sabots, or bad shoulder it was me that had the bad day.