Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Hey guys,

I'm fairly new to muzzleloading but I have been an avid rifle and pistol shooter sinceI was a kid. I finally bought an in-line and started shooting it to get familiar with the whole process.I am an accuracy nut, so I am very meticulous inthe loading, firing and cleaning process. The thing is, I haven't been able to shoot better than a 3.25" group at 100 yds.I am going fricken nuts!

pyrodex pellets 100gr. with Hornady 240 xtp... 4" groups
triple 7 pellets 100 gr. with Hornady 240 xtp...4-5" groups
triple 7 pellets 100 gr. with Precision Rifle Qt polymer tip240gr...6-8"
triple 7 pellets 100 gr. with Precision Rifle Dead Center 220 gr...7-9"
triple 7 pellets 100 gr. with Precision Rifle Dead Center 200 gr...8"
Jim shockey's gold 100gr. with hornady 240 xtp...4.5"
American pioneer powder 100 gr. fffgwith T/C mag 300gr...3.25"
American pioneer powder 90 gr. fffg with T/C mag 300gr...4-7"

My process is to load the powder make sure its settled. Seat the sabot to a marked spot on the ram rod. Load primer. Settle gun on shooting bags. A few deep breathes. Pull back hammer. Controlled breathing...relax.Hold crosshairs on target and slowly squeeze the trigger finger until sear is engaged and gun surprises me when it fires. Absolutely no flinching! I then lick 1patch and swab the barrel. Flip it over and repeat.Then 1 dry patch down the barrel flip and repeat. I let the barrel cool6-8 min,load, fire, repeat.

I made sure my leupold scope is sound by swapping iton my .308 Remington, .5" groups.Scope base was tight. My breech pin felt loose, I can easily push it through to the other side with finger. Used a small piece of aluminum pipe tape wrapped around the frame to hold breech pin.I bought a.25 acp conversion breech. I read that the 209 primer has too much power andalot of guys were having accuracyproblems because of it. Factory trigger was set at 3.5lbs.

IfI am doing something wrong please tell me. I am about to use my 209x50 barrel as a trap stake! I would like any advice you can offer to get at least a consistent 2" group at 100yds. I won't be shooting past 200 yds. Thanks guys, DREW

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

where you mention one dry patch and then repeat the process.. try a lightly damp patch first. Work it in short strokes and swab the barrel. Then two dry patches after that and load.

Also some Encores are powder junkies, try 120 grains of loose or 150 grains of pellets. Also try some 250 grain & 300 grain Shockwaves with the powder charges. If it does not shoot better then that, call T/C on the phone and discuss it with them.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

I agree with Cayugad, that the Encores love high power, so up your charge to 3 pellets, that is what my brother shoots and shoot a 300g SW. Also buy some mmp12 mmp24 and some Harvester Crushed rib sabots, shoot the supplied sabot first, then shoot other TIGHT fitting sabots with the SW. Depending on tightness of your barrel, my guess is you not getting good sabot fit to your bullet, it need to be tight but not drive it down with a hammer tight.
Chap Gleason

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Encores can be very sensistive to forearm pressure so you might want to try adding two thin washers inside the forearm - thick enough to relieve any pressure on the barrel from all points other than at the two mounting columns. If your forearm is rubbing the action, relieve some of the material until it no longer rubs.Be sure to position/hold your rifle the same from one shot to the next (as best you can).

Try some FFg T7 loose powder and carefully measure your loads. 100 grains by volume should be plenty. Swab to a fairly clean state after each shot. Do everystep, so far as the loading process,identically from one load to the next.

An extra step after each shot that might help would be to wipe out the QLA section with a rag.

I'm going to take a wild guess that your barrel is stainless...?Does the rifling feel smooth and even as you push a tight patch down through the bore (when clean)? If not, it's either a bad barrelor you are not getting all the deposits out of the bore. Scrub that bore good with something that will dissolve plastic and try again.

If none of that helps, you have probably encountered a misaligned QLA. Get it replaced.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

"Seat the sabot to a marked spot on the ram rod."

Thismay be your problem. APP and JSG like to be compressed. The same is true of granular 777 and Pyrodex to a lesser extent.

When using the 777 and Pyrodex pelletsyou can feel when the sabot contacts the pellets-stop.

For granular powder: Get yourself a 2" furniture knob and drill a hole in it for the ramrod. Put it on the end of the ramrod and lean on it when seating the bullet. Try 120 grains of JSG granular and give the 250 grain SST a try as well. My Encore shoots very small groups with this combination.

Good luck with your Encore.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Yes Underclocked it is a stainless barrel. Misaligned QLA? wouldn't the barrel self align the sabot? I have read where some guys are completely cutting off the QLA and re-crowning the muzzle.

When you say add two thin washers, do you mean to place a washer betweenthe barrelmounting bracket and forearm with the screw holding it all in place? Also what type of solvent would you reccomend to clean up the plastic fouling?

Hey Falcon,whenI seat the sabot on the powder, I do end up leaning over and firmly compressing the the sabot until it doesn't move. On my encore ram rod it marks between the 4-5 ring on the bottom underneath the handle, that is my reference point. Great idea with the furniture knob!

Thanks again guys

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Also what type of powder do you guys reccomend ffg or fffg?

Is the Jim Shockey Gold that much different than the regular American Powder Company in granular form?

Thanks, DREW

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

I don't shoot enough sabots to be a real good reference about solvents to use but the other day, after firing some Shockwaves, I noticed some plastic deposits left in my bore after using Butch's Bore Shine. Wal-Mart sells a product called Super Clean and I happen to have a gallon jug of that nearby. Put a couple of patches on a brush, dipped it into the Super Clean and then gave the bore one stroke. Bore was totally clean afterwards. Be carefulwith that stuff though (if you have any), it will eat skin. Others here can probably advise something much less hazardous.

I'm one of those guys that ridded myself of an Encore QLA. The problem with an off-center QLA is not alignment of the bullet in the bore - it is the uneven pressures exerted on the projectile as it exitsthrough theQLA causing destabilization.

Washers should be thick enough to relieve forearm to barrel contact and no thicker. You might have to shape them a bit to get them just right - then a bit of super glue gel will hold them in place.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Thanks underclocked, the diagram shows exactly whatI presumed. DREW

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Im selling a winchester x-150 .50 magnum that will solve your problems and that shoots under 1" groups with a 385 and 410 grain great plains conical. Add your scope and yu'll get'em all in one hole.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

I own a T/C Omega and I've found the best thing to do in between shots is use a wet patch down and up followed buy a dry patch. I use a 150 grain load with a 250 grain shockwave sabot. This seems to work for me.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

If their barrel is anywhere close to my Omega, try this. 340 gr PR dead center and two T7 50gr pellets. Or, 110 gr T7 2f w/ .451 300 gr Nosler Partition HG. I found that the shorter bullets didn't fly well in my Omega. Win 209 primers for both.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

I shot my encore today not impressed at all. I sold a friend my Z5 omrga which we sighted in today. At50 yards we had 3 250 gr sst touching with open sights. I could not get 3 bullets with 2 inches of each other at 50 yds with a 3x9 scope. I checked the mounts and scope every thing was tight. I will try again tommorow if this continues I have a new boat anchor. My 23 barrel on this frame is awsome 1/3 inch grouos at 100 yds. I guess I start over with the muzzleloader tommorow.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Well I had time to shoot today and the weather was descent, 50 degrees and partly sunny. I took some advice and tried some new ammo. I thoroughly cleaned my gunbarrel using a solvent to clean up all plastic residue out of it. Shimmed the forearm with washers and sanded it so their was no contact with the barrel. Iused American Pioneer powder, 120 gr. fffg. shooting five shot groups cleaning with windex between shots as Cayugadadvised.Here were the results.

Hornady 250 gr. SST-ML... 3 7/8"
Hornady 300 gr. SST-ML... 4"
T/C Shockwave 300 gr..... 6 1/8"
Hornady 240 gr. xtp..........6 1/4"

I then shot my Remington 870 slug gun,using Remington Core Lokt Ultra 385 gr. sabots. I shot a 1 3/8" 3 shot group. WTF, I should be getting those kinds of groups with a $625 Encore, right? T/C is going to get a call first thing monday morning.This is BS!!!!

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Try pyrodex rs or pyrodex P.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

I would not waste anymore time experimenting with any more loads until T/C checks your barrel out. 6" groups is totally abnormal. Something's up.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

Well first off you have not discribed how tight your sabot is in your barrel after you get it started or how hard it is to get started. I take a new gun and take out the breach plug and try a bunch of different sabots it needs to be as tight as you can still load smooth [no pounding !] . Most TC Muzzleloaders use MMP-HPH 24 or a crush rib but there is a wide tolorance so be sure to get that right fit; too loose will shoot large groups too tight and you beat on them and they will go all over the place.
Due to barrel harmonics you need to start with 80 gr and increase 10 gr after a 3 shot group till you have the right sabot bullet and powder load to shoot good you might have to go all the way to 150 gr with some bullets and you will find some it just wont like. Some like different powders I use RS in the Omega and 777 in the Triumph and Pyrodex P in the System One you have to find what they like and bullets are the same way.
I would suggest you run the powder ladder with all the Shock Waves and the 250 and 300gr Gold Dot and some blue sabots from MMP and the 40 cal 200gr XTP. Try pyrodex both RS and P and 777-FF and FFF if it wont shoot some combination of these with the proper fit on the sabot then there is likly something wrong with the gun. Lee

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

i did not see were Drew307 said what primer he was using . i found the primer to be a thing of contention ,as well the easy load thing my not be square with the bore . mine did like T7 ,90gr of it , now that its fixed it likes 110 gr of it .
stick with shock waves 300 gr ,thats what TC is going to recommend

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

http://www.budandbetty.com/prod.php?prod=muzzy01

I decided to follow his standards.

"Maximizin your Muzzleloader" Thompson Center Encore.

RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
 

I would try 777 loose powder before getting too concerned. Many people tend to load sabots short or try to compact the pellets, causing crushing and inconsistant shots. I would also start around 100 grains and work up in increments of 5 or 10 grains. You will find a sweet spot for sure.

The QLA could be the problem. But, I tend to think not. There were some bad barrels out there a few years ago, but I suspect that the problem has been fixed. I cut mine off and I think it helped a tad, but not all that much.

My gun likes 110 grains of 777 and a 250 grain shock wave. Shoots cloverleafs at 100 yards. As long as it is cold. Tends to string vertically after the second shot on days warmer than about 60 degrees. You will most likely get better accuracy out of loose powder, most people do.

A couple of mistakes I see newcomers to muzzle loading make. First is they shoot shot after shot not letting the barrel cool. A muzzy gets hot fast and on a hot day, gets very hot, very fast. Sabots, being made of plastic tend to act differently in a hot barrel than a cold one. Give the barrel time to cool, then after you "think" you have it sighted in, shoot it a day later with a very cool barrel. Of course, if it is a very cool day when shooting, not as big a problem.

Another is swabbing. Some guns shoot better with a little "dirty" barrel. Maybe your gun does or does not. Mine shoots best with a little soot. If I have really cleaned it, before I load to hunt, I pop a couple of caps and then spit patch/dry patch it. Right back to zero. What ever you swab with, spit, cleaner, glass cleaner, etc, do it the same exact way between each shot. I do two spit patches both sides followed by a dry patch, both sides, then reload. I see some people trying to lube the barrel with bore butter or use some cleaning, lube product between shots. I only clean after extended shooting or every other week or so. Then pop a couple of primers and lightly patch the barrel before reloading.

Primers make a big difference. The biggest waste of money (ON MY GUN) was the 777 primers. Total waste. Regular winchester or Rem primers work fine.

Consistant seating pressure is also key. Jamming it home once and then loading to a set mark the next time is a sure way to introduce innacuracy in your loads. Try to seat the sabot about the same every time.

Check for loose scope mounts. Last year, all of a sudden my gun started shooting all over the place. I chased my tail for a week thinking I had bad powder, sabots or primers. Till I found a stripped screw that was allowing the scope to wiggle a tad. Muzzys, especially with magnum loads, kick pretty hard. They can be hard on scopes and mounts.

The washer trick and trimming the forearm stock is right on. I used leather washers when setting mine up four years ago. Made a difference then for sure. Still working today.

Just some ideas. The encore is a great gun. Some have growing pains I admit, but many other guns do as well.
Hank