Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
#11
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southwest, WI~ Sothwest, WA
Posts: 3
RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
I own a T/C Omega and I've found the best thing to do in between shots is use a wet patch down and up followed buy a dry patch. I use a 150 grain load with a 250 grain shockwave sabot. This seems to work for me.
#12
RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
If their barrel is anywhere close to my Omega, try this. 340 gr PR dead center and two T7 50gr pellets. Or, 110 gr T7 2f w/ .451 300 gr Nosler Partition HG. I found that the shorter bullets didn't fly well in my Omega. Win 209 primers for both.
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chippewa Falls WI
Posts: 914
RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
I shot my encore today not impressed at all. I sold a friend my Z5 omrga which we sighted in today. At50 yards we had 3 250 gr sst touching with open sights. I could not get 3 bullets with 2 inches of each other at 50 yds with a 3x9 scope. I checked the mounts and scope every thing was tight. I will try again tommorow if this continues I have a new boat anchor. My 23 barrel on this frame is awsome 1/3 inch grouos at 100 yds. I guess I start over with the muzzleloader tommorow.
#14
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 40
RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
Well I had time to shoot today and the weather was descent, 50 degrees and partly sunny. I took some advice and tried some new ammo. I thoroughly cleaned my gunbarrel using a solvent to clean up all plastic residue out of it. Shimmed the forearm with washers and sanded it so their was no contact with the barrel. Iused American Pioneer powder, 120 gr. fffg. shooting five shot groups cleaning with windex between shots as Cayugadadvised.Here were the results.
Hornady 250 gr. SST-ML... 3 7/8"
Hornady 300 gr. SST-ML... 4"
T/C Shockwave 300 gr..... 6 1/8"
Hornady 240 gr. xtp..........6 1/4"
I then shot my Remington 870 slug gun,using Remington Core Lokt Ultra 385 gr. sabots. I shot a 1 3/8" 3 shot group. WTF, I should be getting those kinds of groups with a $625 Encore, right? T/C is going to get a call first thing monday morning.This is BS!!!!
Hornady 250 gr. SST-ML... 3 7/8"
Hornady 300 gr. SST-ML... 4"
T/C Shockwave 300 gr..... 6 1/8"
Hornady 240 gr. xtp..........6 1/4"
I then shot my Remington 870 slug gun,using Remington Core Lokt Ultra 385 gr. sabots. I shot a 1 3/8" 3 shot group. WTF, I should be getting those kinds of groups with a $625 Encore, right? T/C is going to get a call first thing monday morning.This is BS!!!!
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
Well first off you have not discribed how tight your sabot is in your barrel after you get it started or how hard it is to get started. I take a new gun and take out the breach plug and try a bunch of different sabots it needs to be as tight as you can still load smooth [no pounding !] . Most TC Muzzleloaders use MMP-HPH 24 or a crush rib but there is a wide tolorance so be sure to get that right fit; too loose will shoot large groups too tight and you beat on them and they will go all over the place.
Due to barrel harmonics you need to start with 80 gr and increase 10 gr after a 3 shot group till you have the right sabot bullet and powder load to shoot good you might have to go all the way to 150 gr with some bullets and you will find some it just wont like. Some like different powders I use RS in the Omega and 777 in the Triumph and Pyrodex P in the System One you have to find what they like and bullets are the same way.
I would suggest you run the powder ladder with all the Shock Waves and the 250 and 300gr Gold Dot and some blue sabots from MMP and the 40 cal 200gr XTP. Try pyrodex both RS and P and 777-FF and FFF if it wont shoot some combination of these with the proper fit on the sabot then there is likly something wrong with the gun. Lee
Due to barrel harmonics you need to start with 80 gr and increase 10 gr after a 3 shot group till you have the right sabot bullet and powder load to shoot good you might have to go all the way to 150 gr with some bullets and you will find some it just wont like. Some like different powders I use RS in the Omega and 777 in the Triumph and Pyrodex P in the System One you have to find what they like and bullets are the same way.
I would suggest you run the powder ladder with all the Shock Waves and the 250 and 300gr Gold Dot and some blue sabots from MMP and the 40 cal 200gr XTP. Try pyrodex both RS and P and 777-FF and FFF if it wont shoot some combination of these with the proper fit on the sabot then there is likly something wrong with the gun. Lee
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,618
RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
i did not see were Drew307 said what primer he was using . i found the primer to be a thing of contention ,as well the easy load thing my not be square with the bore . mine did like T7 ,90gr of it , now that its fixed it likes 110 gr of it .
stick with shock waves 300 gr ,thats what TC is going to recommend
stick with shock waves 300 gr ,thats what TC is going to recommend
#19
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 73
RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
http://www.budandbetty.com/prod.php?prod=muzzy01
I decided to follow his standards.
"Maximizin your Muzzleloader" Thompson Center Encore.
I decided to follow his standards.
"Maximizin your Muzzleloader" Thompson Center Encore.
#20
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: mississippi by way of Florida
Posts: 357
RE: Need help with Encore Accuracy!!!!
I would try 777 loose powder before getting too concerned. Many people tend to load sabots short or try to compact the pellets, causing crushing and inconsistant shots. I would also start around 100 grains and work up in increments of 5 or 10 grains. You will find a sweet spot for sure.
The QLA could be the problem. But, I tend to think not. There were some bad barrels out there a few years ago, but I suspect that the problem has been fixed. I cut mine off and I think it helped a tad, but not all that much.
My gun likes 110 grains of 777 and a 250 grain shock wave. Shoots cloverleafs at 100 yards. As long as it is cold. Tends to string vertically after the second shot on days warmer than about 60 degrees. You will most likely get better accuracy out of loose powder, most people do.
A couple of mistakes I see newcomers to muzzle loading make. First is they shoot shot after shot not letting the barrel cool. A muzzy gets hot fast and on a hot day, gets very hot, very fast. Sabots, being made of plastic tend to act differently in a hot barrel than a cold one. Give the barrel time to cool, then after you "think" you have it sighted in, shoot it a day later with a very cool barrel. Of course, if it is a very cool day when shooting, not as big a problem.
Another is swabbing. Some guns shoot better with a little "dirty" barrel. Maybe your gun does or does not. Mine shoots best with a little soot. If I have really cleaned it, before I load to hunt, I pop a couple of caps and then spit patch/dry patch it. Right back to zero. What ever you swab with, spit, cleaner, glass cleaner, etc, do it the same exact way between each shot. I do two spit patches both sides followed by a dry patch, both sides, then reload. I see some people trying to lube the barrel with bore butter or use some cleaning, lube product between shots. I only clean after extended shooting or every other week or so. Then pop a couple of primers and lightly patch the barrel before reloading.
Primers make a big difference. The biggest waste of money (ON MY GUN) was the 777 primers. Total waste. Regular winchester or Rem primers work fine.
Consistant seating pressure is also key. Jamming it home once and then loading to a set mark the next time is a sure way to introduce innacuracy in your loads. Try to seat the sabot about the same every time.
Check for loose scope mounts. Last year, all of a sudden my gun started shooting all over the place. I chased my tail for a week thinking I had bad powder, sabots or primers. Till I found a stripped screw that was allowing the scope to wiggle a tad. Muzzys, especially with magnum loads, kick pretty hard. They can be hard on scopes and mounts.
The washer trick and trimming the forearm stock is right on. I used leather washers when setting mine up four years ago. Made a difference then for sure. Still working today.
Just some ideas. The encore is a great gun. Some have growing pains I admit, but many other guns do as well.
Hank
The QLA could be the problem. But, I tend to think not. There were some bad barrels out there a few years ago, but I suspect that the problem has been fixed. I cut mine off and I think it helped a tad, but not all that much.
My gun likes 110 grains of 777 and a 250 grain shock wave. Shoots cloverleafs at 100 yards. As long as it is cold. Tends to string vertically after the second shot on days warmer than about 60 degrees. You will most likely get better accuracy out of loose powder, most people do.
A couple of mistakes I see newcomers to muzzle loading make. First is they shoot shot after shot not letting the barrel cool. A muzzy gets hot fast and on a hot day, gets very hot, very fast. Sabots, being made of plastic tend to act differently in a hot barrel than a cold one. Give the barrel time to cool, then after you "think" you have it sighted in, shoot it a day later with a very cool barrel. Of course, if it is a very cool day when shooting, not as big a problem.
Another is swabbing. Some guns shoot better with a little "dirty" barrel. Maybe your gun does or does not. Mine shoots best with a little soot. If I have really cleaned it, before I load to hunt, I pop a couple of caps and then spit patch/dry patch it. Right back to zero. What ever you swab with, spit, cleaner, glass cleaner, etc, do it the same exact way between each shot. I do two spit patches both sides followed by a dry patch, both sides, then reload. I see some people trying to lube the barrel with bore butter or use some cleaning, lube product between shots. I only clean after extended shooting or every other week or so. Then pop a couple of primers and lightly patch the barrel before reloading.
Primers make a big difference. The biggest waste of money (ON MY GUN) was the 777 primers. Total waste. Regular winchester or Rem primers work fine.
Consistant seating pressure is also key. Jamming it home once and then loading to a set mark the next time is a sure way to introduce innacuracy in your loads. Try to seat the sabot about the same every time.
Check for loose scope mounts. Last year, all of a sudden my gun started shooting all over the place. I chased my tail for a week thinking I had bad powder, sabots or primers. Till I found a stripped screw that was allowing the scope to wiggle a tad. Muzzys, especially with magnum loads, kick pretty hard. They can be hard on scopes and mounts.
The washer trick and trimming the forearm stock is right on. I used leather washers when setting mine up four years ago. Made a difference then for sure. Still working today.
Just some ideas. The encore is a great gun. Some have growing pains I admit, but many other guns do as well.
Hank