Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

The last chart on this page has some good round ball data.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/TraditionalBallistics.html

It sure makes you question the viability of even a .54 caliber PRB at 100 yards with energy of less than 600 ft. lbs.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

With that data I would tend to agree but knowing that a many a Deer have been taken out to 100 yards with a .54 PRB makes me think that the data is mostly suggestive of knowing your weapons limitations & capabilities.

With a ME of around 550 a person would more than likely know their weapon enough & make shot placement at 100 yards priority.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

PRBs have killed an awful lot of game animals.Like every rifle projectile ever made, it has limitations. Read the journal of the Lewis and Clark Expedition once. The meanest animal to inhabit the west was the plains grizzly bear, now extinct: Members of the the expedition shot one eleven times with rifles and muskets before it was killed.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

Good link, with good info. Thanks for sharing.

But, KE calculations favor higher speed, lighter weight bullets, while momentum calculations favor lower speed heavier weight bullets. KE may not be the best way to describe the effectiveness of a round ball. Undoubtably a conical is much more effective at distance than a PRB, but does that meanthe PRBcannot be effective within it's limitations? Is the ball getting a short shrift in KE calculations? Is there a better way to describe it's effectiveness?

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

Thats kinda slanted to show what they want,I chrony my 54cal with a 35.5 inch barrel a tight 535 ball and ticking patch at 2150 with 130 gr of RS and while I never bothered to figer the enegry on it I took two deer and one 680 pound bear at between 170 and 188 yds and they were all bang flops. Now if they managed to settle the west with them they have to have something going for them.
Swiss black is almost equal to pyrodex. There is a lot more to it than that page would have you believe,I wonder who they are trying to fool. Lee

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

I don't think they're trying to fool anyone - just stating facts. Physics is physics. The only opinion stated, andit's commonly held, is that a projectileshould have at least800 ft. lbs. of energy for an effective kill on a whitetail.

Of course that's only part of the equation. A 200 grain solid steel 30 caliber spitzer at 1900 fps has tons of energy but would not be an effective deer killer. A well sharpened broadhead at 400 fps had little energy but is an effective killer.

They say they will be adding data in the future. I'm looking forward to it.

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More Traditional Loads & Ballistics To Be Added In The Coming Months - Watch For More Conical Bullet Loads And More Patched Round Ball Load Data...Especially For The Really Big Bores - .58, .62 & Bigger! If You Want To Share Your Favorite Load, Send it To Us At The Following E-mail: [email protected]

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RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

All I know is when I shoot a Deer with my 54Cal. P&B,pushed by 90gr. Pyrodex.They very seldom run.



big rockpile

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

All I know is I never killed a deer with a chart, but I sure took a lot of them with roundball... It's still the old story, put a 1/2 inch hole through an animals major organs and it will die. It might not be where they are standing, but you punch a hole like that an something has to shut down. Also roundball really penetrate well for some reason. In all the deer I shot with roundball I can only remember two that did not get a pass through (or at least a second hole I did not find).

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

Here's one for the .50

http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/tc50bal.htm

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

The round ball delivers allot of "shock" to the animal on impact! On most game,the meat around the bullet hole is very blood shot,a sign of sever tissue damage,or "shock". The round ball does shed velocity very fast(it's about the worst projectile,as far as BC is concerned. But it hits like a brick batt ,and transfers that energy to the animal.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

If you use a PRB then the shot has to be a "broadside bow shot" < 50 to 70 yards in my opinion. The penetration is there with these projectiles but the mass is missing. I now shoot Speer Gold Dots in my TC Hawken 1:48 twist, with crushed rib sabot and limit my shots to 50 yards. I would like to get a Renegade Stock and buy a 1:28 Green Mountain Barrel for FL hunting. It is really about shot placement with just about any projectile, however some bullets allow for poor placement by going thru bone and tough stuff to get into the vitals. I think the heavier PRB can do that, the .45 can't from my experience in shooting a .45 cal FL for a while. I like the .54with a PRB, much more energy.
Chap Gleason

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

I think the heavier PRB can do that, the .45 can't from my experience in shooting a .45 cal FL for a while. I like the .54with a PRB, much more energy.
Chap Gleason
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Yeah I agree that bigger is better in this scenario however, my .45 has brought down a lot of deer. Did have to track them though-but never did lose one. That was my first ML so at that time I didn't have a choice, now that I own others its not the first one I pick out to take deer huntin'(Now it's my fall turkey gun)

Just a side thought, I wonder where the idea of a PRB isn't effective came from? When I first got into ML that was the only thing people used now people speak as if you're better off w/a creek rock. Not that it makes any difference to me just curious...

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

I think it's just a matter of prespective. When I first got into muzzle loading in the early '60's patched balls and black powderwere about all we knew. Wouldn't even have considered a shot beyond 50 yards. Thought RB's were real killers.

As ML technology progressed, first with heavy conicals which extended effective range - then with sabbotted jacketed bullets which extended it even more, what is considered "ML range" has increased greatly. So, with current state of affairs being that 150 yards is considered by most to be a perfectly doable ML shot, round balls pale by comparison. Those who hunt with PRB's and know their limitations, know where and how to place the shot, and have the tracking skills necessary, balls are still viable. For the average Joe who shoots a ML a few times before the season to sight in, then hunts, PRB's are not the best choice.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

Semisane,For normal deer range [most deer a taken under 50yds] I am not so sure about that I used my long barreled 54 for over 25 years and never lost a deer and in some ways I think its more dependable than inlines because its a sealed system. Lee

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

I don't consider foot-pounds of energy figures to bea reliable predictor of the killing power of a large-caliber, pure lead projectile such as a 54-caliber round ball. If it were, I would agree with you that 600 foot-pounds sounds puny compared to the kinetic energy developed by modern rifles. However, if you look at the energy figures for some small-caliber, high velocity projectiles, you might get the impression that, say, a .223 Remington with a 55-grain bullet would kill betterthan that .54 RB at 100 yards, when the exact opposite isactually thecase.

Many people maintain that killing power is proportional to the amount of energy "dumped" in the critter, when actually,killing powercomes from the amount of vital organ damage a bullet does. That's why bullet placement is so critical, regardless of the actual kinetic energy carried by a bullet. Therefore, a large, soft-lead round ball only requirtes sufficient velocity on impact to penetrate to, and through, the vital organ(s) in order to kill game regardless of size. Round balls of .54 caliber or larger have been proven to do this reliably, even on game as big and mean as grizzly bears.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

Those charts don't explain why when the Longhunter Society came out that the world record grizzly was killed with a .54 Hawken style with 120grs FF goex...
Range was 100 yards, ball was found under the hide on the off side, lung shot...Bear ran 80 yards and piled up....

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

400FPS? I don't think any bows are shooting this fast. Hunting bows shooting 300 fps are incredible. I know my bow set up for target shooting will sling them around 325-330 FPS. My heavier hunting arrows shoot 281 FPS with right around 80 ft.lbs. of K.E. 80 K.E. on a bow is very good for this day and age. I'm sure recurves and long bows are much lower than my high end bow and they kill deer too.

I'm not sure where the 800 ft.lbs. came from but I'm sure they were referring to a bullet size or grain weight. Obviously a 450 grain(im guessing) .54 cal. round ball hits pretty hard. Compared to a rifle projectile. If you shoot a 130 grain .270 bullet with 600 ft.lbs. of K.E. it probably won't be a killer like the .54 cal. PRB.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

Moebedda, there are a few for instance the new Striker Crossbow.
gleason.chapman, I don't know where you got the idea they the only shot you should take with a PRB is broadside. I have shot diagonally through a big IL doe[ 140 #] and hit the buk behind her in the neck and took a big chunck out of his spine, dropped both deer on the spot. Any 235gr ball bullet or what ever moving at over 2000 FPS is going to do a lot of damage when applied to the right spot.
I bet some of these ideas got started by people trying to use squrril guns on deer and people that dont put half the ball weight or more in powder. Lee

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

Chap, A .45 muzzleloader shooting a 128 grain PRB has killed hundreds of thousands of whitetails when this country was being settled. .45cal and under. Davy Crocket didnt use no big bore rifle in his days. Back then, those people depended on their rifles for defense and mainly for putting food on their tables.

FPS/ Ft lbs energy mean nothing to me. They are just numbers. I prefer to stick with the history the PRB has made in this country and other countries.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

If our fore father's had read this they would have stayed in the old country! Critter's can't be killed there with our gun's!!!:D

All things have their limitations. Be it a sling shot, ML, CF or bow and arrow. Used within their capabilities all are efficient at what they do.

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

The appreate caliber of PRB was the first guns use to kill elephants in Africa,now theres people saying they have not got what it takes to do a good job on deer. I hope nobody tells the big bears and the elk I took with my 54 they might come back and haunt me. Lee

RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data
 

Any deer that shows up within 100yds,and gives the hunter a clear shot,with a ML using a 54cal PRB,has made it's LAST mistake. Providing the hunter is able to make the shot,and put the ball where it should go. There's too much hype put on KE. It's shot placement that puts the meat on the pole! Ron