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weights & measures
Several posts a while back refered to "cutting powder measure", and recepticles for capturing spilled granules. I've never bothered, choosing instead to pour an eyeballed amount. Has anyone ever chronographed loads they "cut" versus loads they eyeballed? Or weighed loads they eyeballed for deviations? I'm guessing a few grains + or - has little or no affect on the accuracy outcome, being too easily overshadowed by shooter error. Thoughts?
Anyone have a table showing grain weight vs volumn measure for Pyrodex RS? |
RE: weights & measures
Different powder measures will throw slightly different weights, and how you fill and handle the measure will affect the weight of the load.
With my adjustable brass powder measureset at 100 grains and using Pyrodex RS, if Ifill it to overflowing - then tap the side of the measure fivetimes with a pencil to settle the powder (it settles about 3/8") - then fill it to overflowing again - then tap it once - then level it off - and weigh it, I get 78 grains weight (average of 5 measured loads). |
RE: weights & measures
Semisane - at what volumn is your brass measure set? 100 grains?
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RE: weights & measures
I'm not sure about the grain weight vs volumn but I recently tried the catch the powder when cutting thing. I was loading up 7 speed loaders for my kids deer hunt. I used an old cake pan to catch the excess powder and then measured how much was in the pan after 7 loads. I was surprized to see that it measured about 60 grains by volumn. If I had loaded 10 to 11I would have saved enough powder to make another load. For me that works out to 8 to 10 percent powder savings, not as small as I thought it would be. I may have to do some more testing but I think I'm going to start doing this more often.
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RE: weights & measures
yeoman, as good as you can shoot - you would benefit from weighing charges. Imprecision is additive. :D
But the difference may not be all thatmuch. |
RE: weights & measures
Yeah yoeman, 100 grains. Sorry about leaving that rather important piece of info out.
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RE: weights & measures
Pyrodex is the most common "black powder substitute." It is really the only synthetic black powder "performance" substitute in common use. By performance substitute, I refer to a charge of loose powder measure by volume. A 100 grain volumetric charge of Pyrodex RS (Rifle/Shotgun) is very close in performance to Goex FFg black powder. There are differences, though, and this is where things get a bit convoluted. Pyrodex is bulkier, another way of saying "less dense." By weight, it is more powerful than Goex black powder. But, the traditional method of measuring black powder is indeed by volume, so in that sense it is a black powder performance substitute. By actual weight, it is not the same. 100 grains measured by volume of Goex FFg is about 101.3 grains by weight. 100 grains measured by volume of Pyrodex RS is about 72.5 grains by weight. Pyrodex is where confusion can start to set in, as the standard "F" designations of powder coarseness start to go out the window. Pyrodex "Select," formulated for use in muzzleloading rifles, is touted as an "extremely consistent" grade of Pyrodex, and has the largest grain size of them all. It is even farther away from black powder by actual weight; 100 grains volumetric equals about 63.9 grains by actual weight. Semisane - I'd guess they did not "tap and refill" the volumn device when they got 72.5 grains by weight. thanks, all, for input |
RE: weights & measures
When I do get a wild hair and weigh out charges (usually a rain day operation) I make sure to recheck the jug every time I do so. I have had the weight of the charge actually change a little as the jug gets lighter. That's because some of the fine grains of powder will in time sift towards the bottom of the jug. Also, when you change jugs you start over with the weight average. Normally I will weigh out five charges which I set aside in some speciman cups (plastic ones the pills in the hospital is served to you in) Then when I have the average, the first five charges are basically set that cup back on the scale and add or subtract from it until I get what I want. Then I pour that into the loading tubes.
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RE: weights & measures
yeoman
I am a reloader by heart, so I use to measure all my ML loads also... but after awhile I came to the realization their are some many variations in shooting a ML it really had no effect on my hunting accuracy. You can be sure if I were shooting paper for a living - I would weight loads and I would be buying powder by a lot number and I would be storing all of them in a specific atmosphered contolled environment. For hunting it is really not worth the time and effort. As I mentioned WAY to many varibles out there. All that said you also have to remember that I am not hung up MOA - I want to hit somewhere in a 6" circle of my POA for hunting - 3" either way of my point of aim - I then have a dead animal. And in that that i want the bullet to get there as fast as I can get it there- with the energy to do the job. Again if I were shooting paper i would back the load way down and just lob the bullet in for accuracy... |
RE: weights & measures
after awhile I came to the realization their are some many variations in shooting a ML it really had no effect on my hunting accuracy |
RE: weights & measures
after awhile I came to the realization their are some many variations in shooting a ML it (weighing charges) really had no effect on my hunting accuracy I agree completely, Sabotloader. Still, unless I'm roundball plinking I do it anyway. Got the time and I enjoy it, so what the heck. |
RE: weights & measures
It's only fair that if Sabotloader can part time as Conicalloader ....
 The rifle had been sighted in with 496 grain conicals so the first group was quite high. I tried to concentrate REAL hard on that last group and didn't gain much, but I think that vertical spread might be greatly reduced if I were to weigh those charges rather than use volume measure. The BM3 is old and had once been a solid block inside its container. It had rocked up just a little when I first took it out againa couple of days ago buttwo minutes of shaking the container brought it back to fine powder form. The stuff is surprising me - someone needs to buy the process/formula from Magkor that could properly market it at a fair price. It's better than Triple7 when it's right. And no crud ring whatsoever. I may turn that Umag into a .243 yet. ;) |
RE: weights & measures
UC
It is so hard to beleive that you are moving from the dark side to the modern side... shooting polymere - didn't think i would see that from you... Do the guys on DWB's no about this move? |
RE: weights & measures
yep and I've survived so far. :D Just playing around with powder and bullets that have been idling for a long time. Shot some 350 grain PowerStars in my .451 mini Umag - those don't load so easily.
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RE: weights & measures
Never weighed amuzzleloader charge ever. i just pour it into the measure, strike the excess off and then pour it into the gun barrel.For some reasonthis works well for me.All three of my guns have shot <one inch groups at 100 yards.
There is a USMC staff NCO in town who is the best rifle shot i have ever seen. He had never shot a muzzleloader before and one day at the range he asked if he could shoot my Encore. He laid on the ground prone and put three 250 grain SST bullets into one-half inch at 100 yards. For some reason relatively large swings in muzzleloader velocity are not always detrimental to accuracy. |
RE: weights & measures
sabotloader,I also am a reloader and went through the same process and came to the same conclusion.
The thing about it that bothered me the most is when I took my scale out to the MZ range and some of the other guys wanted to check what there powder measure was throwing, no two were the same even in the same brand some were as much as 40 grs off, I decieded that the most important thing was consistency so I use the same powder measure for everything[the one that was closest to the scale with Goex Black FFFwhich happened to be my original TC]. Lee |
RE: weights & measures
LEE
no two were the same even in the same brand some were as much as 40 grs off, I decieded that the most important thing was consistency so I use the same powder measure for everything |
RE: weights & measures
In that case I either need to up or down the powder charge or throw away this derned plastic. ;)
falcon, I've got groups well under an inch shooting heavy conicals. Plastics (recycled milk jugs) just don't like me and I don't like them. :D I am going to weigh some loads and see if it makes a difference on the vertical spread though. My volumetric loads were as consistent as I could make them with the U-view measure. AND I not only positioned each sabot the same with respect to the bore, I positioned the notches on the bullets the same inside the sabots. How's that fer nutty? It could be the powder is very touchy about seating pressure and slight differences could cause the vertical spread. I'm too good a shot for it to possibly have been ME!! ;) :D |
RE: weights & measures
UC
I've got groups well under an inch shooting heavy conicals. It could be the powder is very touchy about seating pressure and slight differences could cause the vertical spread. I'm too good a shot for it to possibly have been ME!! |
RE: weights & measures
You're gettin cereal on me agin. ;) :D
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RE: weights & measures
I plan on weighing my 2ff triple seven loads, just because.
What should I expect it to weigh. I think it should be 84grains on the scale, when I have 120 grains by volume? can someone confirm this? |
RE: weights & measures
I use the old CVA brass powder measure, and tap and refill til I can't get any more in it. I throw and weigh 10 charges and take the average.
I go by these standards, andI double check my reference points with each new pound of powder: 100grains By Volume(BV) of Trip7 2Fg = 80grains by Actual Weight(AW), the conversion factor is .80gAW x 100gBV=80g AW SOoooo... 120gBV x .80gAW = 96gAW :);) APP/Goex Pinnacle/JSG conversion factor is: .92 .92gAW x 100gBV = 92gAW That's what works for me:D . |
RE: weights & measures
I searched the net and found .7 for my conversion factor, which ended up at 85 actual weight for 120. I will add another 5 then to get it closer too your calculations.
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