The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Took my new CVA OE to the range to try and work up a load for the upcoming blackpowder season and had crud ring issues. I was shooting triple 7 2F powder and the weapon would develop a crud ring after every shot so as to prevent another bullet from being properly seated. I was having to remove the breech plug between every shot and clean the barrel before I could reload. Also noticed that the breach would be covered with a grey grease like coating. I tried both pellets and loose powder with the same results. Was using Win 777 and kleanbore primers with little change. While cleaning some unfired powder would also fall out of the barrel. Has anybody else experinced anything like this. Would appreciate any help anyone could offer, I really need to get this problem resollved. Thanks.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Sounds like you are getting gases back through the threads. I would try another breechplug but in the meantime (and maybe afterwards, try Sabotloader's method of taping the plug with teflon tape. A single damp (with water or Windex w/vinegar) patch, both sides followed by one or two dry patches should be enough to clear the worst of it.

You aren't leaving plug grease on the forward end of the plug, are you? Too much grease in the threads can push forward into the ignition area as the plug is tightenedand cause grief. There is no way you should need to fully clean after each shot.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Grey grease like coating is what i got when using kleanbore primers. They are dirty SOB's are no good. Try cci or winchester triple 7 primers.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Underclocked is right on..

I have been giving the breech plugs of mine two wraps of white Teflon tape, then with a model builder's paint brush I paint a nice thin coat of anti seize onto the threads. I screw that in just finger tight. I still get a little blow back, but I live with it.

Swab the barrel between shots. Put a loading jag on the end of your range rod. Work a lightly damp patch in short strokes down the bore to the breech of the rifle. Then pull that and reverse the patch and do it all over again. Then a couple of dry patches and you should be set to fire. Do not worry about that gray stuff down by the breech plug,it will blow out with the next shot.

A good swabbing solution is Windex or car windshield washer fluid and alcohol mixed 50/50. There is no need to pull that plug until your done for the day.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

"There is no way you should need to fully clean after each shot."

Exactly, all he has to do is to swab the bore. Windex with vinegar works very well.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Switch to real Goex blackpowder

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

you need some ultra bore coat.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Or better yet, make that CVA into a door prop, get yourself a Savage and shoot TRUE smokeless powder. After all, smokeless is the original and best BP substitute. All the benefits everyone is trying to achieve with the not-quite-smokeless subs, without the obvious drawbacks (crud rings, siezed breachplugs, corrosion etc...)

With all the problems associated with T7 and the like, I'm amazed people don't just go back to real black powder.

Mike

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

why would he do that when he has a rifle that can shoot a sabot or conical with great accuracy, buy a centerfire barrel. Does a savage come in 45-70 caliber?
Now shadd up about this optima elite or else you will tempt me :D:D

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

What good is the CF barrel if he wants to hunt with ML? Or maybe even has too. Some states don't allow CF rifles at all. Better to get a great ML and a good CF rifle, than one mediocre switchbarrel. CVA's are cheap for a reason, and I for one wouldn't trust a CVA barrel with BP, let alone a high pressure CF rifle cartridge.

It's his money...

Mike

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Not all states allow Savage with smokeless powder either. Not that I agree with that, but it is a fact. Also some people got into this sport because of the fact they are NOT shooting smokeless powder. As for all the little problems, that's what makes these rifles interesting.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

I recognize that not all states allow the use of smokeless powder, but that doesn't preclude using the 10ML-II with BP or the like. My Savage would still be my go-to gun even if I couldn't use smokeless. It's the best build ML I've owned, and I've owned a few. If it's legal in his state, I'd say that he should try it.

And what you call "interesting," I call a time wasting pain-in-the-rear. Now, I know some people may actually enjoy wrestling with the inherent problems with BP subs. Some people enjoy cutting themselves with razor blades, too, but that doesn't mean we all should do it. I get precious little time to shoot and even less these days to hunt, so I place a high premium on the simplicity and user friendliness of the Savage. And since the benefits of smokeless are mostly a matter of economics and ease-of-use, not true performance since the max loads aren't all that much faster than the 150gr T7 loads with the same bullets, the irrational laws against smokeless powder exist only because there are enough whiny sniveling 'traditionalists' that want to make muzzleloading as exclusive and inaccessable as possible. The thing is, with all these so-called "traditionalists" pressuring the DNR's to make these rules, you hardly ever see truely traditional weapons like smoothbore .72cal flintlock muskets in the field or at the range. I guess these people only cherish tradition in small doses. [:@]

Remember, they all load from the front, and I'm no more likely to get a follow-up shot than you are, so why do people feel so threatened by the Savage? Or do ML shooters just like pain? Well, just don't forget to pick up a pack of double-edged razor blades when you get your T7. ;)

I'll stick to pain-free ML'ing, thank you very much!

Mike

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

steamingutpile

I kinda always hate to get into these "crud ring" discussion becauseI really do not have that problm in any of the guns that I shoot. I only use T7 powder and an completly happy with it's performance. Once in awhile I might bet the hint of the ring but it is not a problem for me becasue I am one that swabs the barrel after each shot, whether I am shooting conicals or sabots. I could/can load up to five sabots easily one after the other if I need to. But I have a theory... I am one of those people that shoots a semi fouled barrel and I also leave loads in for weeks at a time. I also spend a lot of time shooting and I always shoot on this "semi-clean" barrel. So I run a regular windex (windex with ammonia) patch after each shot- in that way each shot i takethe barrel is inthe same condition giving me the same POI. For me running a patch is not a problem it is just part of the routine.

Really do not know if any of this helps becuase ifyou get the "crud ring" you probably will continue to get it and I really have no idea why i do not get the "ring" to the extent that others do...

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

That's what I did when I had my Encore. It was easier to clean the mess black powder made than chiseling out those hard triple se7en deposits from your barrel and breech.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Thanks for the recommendations everyone. Haven't been able to get back to my post due to my son's wedding this past weekend. A real busy time. From readings all the replys I think I will try a hotter primer (CCI) and follow underclocked suggestion regarding the breech plug and buy some more powder other than T7 and give these options a try. Will let you know how it went, thanks again.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

I personally would ditch T7, i used to use it until i P'd me off by not shooting worth a crap. I went back to pyrodex RS and P.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

Not promising it will solve the problem, but I just tried the vari-flame primer adapters (209 size & uses small pistol or rifle primer) in my Traditions Pursuit Pro with ffg T-7 and completely eliminated the crud ring! It wasn't too bad with regular 209s, but no ring at all with the vari-flame and a small pistol primer!
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat601638_TGP&rid=&indexId=cat601638&n avAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&amp ;parentType=index&parentId=cat601638&id=00 34484

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

http://www.ultracoatingsinc.com/index.htmlput some ultra bore coat in that barrel ,it will fix the crud ring and make it way easy to clean. call doug.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

"I personally would ditch T7, i used to use it until i P'd me off by not shooting worth a crap. I went back to pyrodex RS and P."

My limited experience with T7 has been mixed:

Encore: First shot from a clean bore,exactly on target at 100 yards. Second shot from a dirty bore, somewhere on the target board. Bad crud ring problem.

CVA Mag. Hunter:Just loves Triple Seven and 300 grain XTP bullets with the bore clean ordirty:It justgets harder and harder to load. Horrible crud ring.

Stag Horn: This gun shoots so well i am afraid of ruining itby shootinganythingother thanPyrodex loose or pellets.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

That website was interesting srwshooter and that might be a good investment to provide additional protection for a new firearm. Would there be an issue with the manufacturer as far as the warranty is concerned?

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

I shoot a Pro Hunter, so I am not sure if you wouldcall me a traditionalist, but I happen to like the experience of using blackpowder, or in my case pyrodex. Yes, it can bework attimes, buthunting with a smokepole is awesome!

Besides, if I want to hunt with a gun that doesn't smoke,I'd use my shotgun or rifle.

RE: The Dreaded Crud Ring
 

i wouldn't think it would hurt your warranty ,you can remove it by scrubing it out with a wire brush. i shot my triumph today with pyrodex and 777primers 5 times. i ran i patch with TC#13 cleaner on it and the second patch was clean . it will make your gun cleanup so easy,plus get rid of the crud ring.

srwshooter