sub $200 ML's?
 

I would assume that you would not expect the same type of accuracy/function from a lower priced muzzleloader as you would say a $700 TC or the like, But what, if any, downsides will I encounter when buying a 'budget minded' .50 cal. to hunt with for maybe 2-3 weekends a year, whitetails only, and only wanting to shoot maybe 150 yds. max?

I've hunted IL every year since I was 12 years old,and owning a muzzleloader is the last piece of the puzzle for me to hunt any game, in any season within the state boundries. Just tryin to come 'full circle', ya know?:D

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

High price does not always mean you'll get better accuracy! Im shooting a $60 cva that is printing less than 1" groups @ 75 yards with the cheap plastic sights.
$300 winchester x150 thats shooting UNDER 1" groups with open sights.
$175 deer creek .45 thats shooting under 1" groups @100 with open sights.

High price rifle pretty much means they need to pay off the equipment and tv ad's and then they'll drop the price 2-3 years down the road.

cva kodiak you can pick up for around $170-180
cva optima is around $180
cva optima pro is a hair over $200.
www.budsgunshop.com

You're pretty much just looking for a rifle to get you started and last a while. 2-3 weekends a year is very little shooting.

All those rifles are good shooters and come with a lifetime warranty.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

Often, price does not equal accuracy. I have several examples of lower priced muzzleloaders that shoot well under 2" groups at 100 yards and some will shoot under 4" at 200 yards with a scope. It has more to do with finding an accurate load than the price you pay for the gun. My suggestion is to go and try several out for size and fit and decide based on that, coupled with any other factors you feel are important, whether a gun is right for you. Then find a load that the gun likes and that will do what you need it to do. And keep us informed on what direction you go.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/351/products_id/11464 blued/wood version should meet your budget but I didn't see it there. The stainless might be worth stretching your budget a bit. Some quirks but generally good, accurate rifles.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

I appreciate the speedy input. The $200 figure I gave was notreally my maximum, but more of a reference point when talking about inexpensive muzzleloaders.

I also said 150 yds. max, again, just a reference. I'm sure not going to limit myself if the weapon is capable of more.:D

I've been casually looking around for a while and am leaning on a break open design that runs 209 primers. Several good contenders out there for sure. I'm not going to be shooting this thing every weekend for practice, I've got lots of other guns for that, it'll be shot enough to know it's still good, and to kill 1 extra deer a year.

...I've been real busy the past several months and with very limited computer access, I think I've made maybe a dozen or so posts since May, but I'll try to report back with whatever I decide and how it works.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

When someone in a store or on a forum tell you that just because you paid under $200.00 for a muzzleloader, that it will not shoot as well as a $500, $600, or more muzzleloader, you know one thing for sure. That person does not know what they are talking about.

What you might find, and I say might... that the more expensive rifles will have a better fit to finish between the hardware and stock. I own both kinds of rifles, cheap ones and expensive rifles. Both of them will shoot very well once you find the right load for them.

If all you want is a two week a year rifle that will get the job done, in a break open design, I would look at the Sidekick by NEF. I have heard some very good reports of the CVA Wolf, CVA Optima, Kodiak, Apex, ... the point is, all of them will shoot good once you find what they like.

Now I have found that if you are a powder junkie.. the more expensive rifles like the Pro Hunter, Encore, Omega, Knights, will be more willing to accept and provide excellent accuracy with magnum charges. Like I said, I have a number of inexpensive rifles. Not one of them like magnum loads. But then, neither do it. 100 grains of powder is all 99% of the hunters are going to need out there for making their kills.

Long range shooting with a inexpensive rifle will take time to work the load up, and then practice. The mechanics of being a good shooter with good shooting skills is something that you have to develop.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

I have a break-open Traditions Pursuit that has terrible fit & finish. You can see daylight between thereceiver and side panels on the synthetic stock, the fore end feels "springy", there are a couple small "pits" in the receiver from casting (I'm guessing it's cast and not milled), the barrel finish is good but the sights have plastic bases, the trigger pull is heavy (but does break cleanly), but the darn thing shoots as accurately as many much more expensive rifles I own and have owned. With the cheap fiber optic sights I'm getting 1" groups at 50 yards.
Price is NOT an indication of accuracy potential. Price is a good indication of fit & finish, andwarranty & customer service.
For an inexpensive break action I would say CVA, NEF, or Traditions will probably all be good possibilities. I would probably choose NEF as #1 choice, but I don't like the $1.00 each plastic primer carrier they require. If I were getting a NEF I'd look into a .25ACP breech plug.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

yea, I asked a simalar question a litte wile ago and got no responce. my problem is i cant get bugeted for another weapon, and found that mossberg has an aftermarket barrel for their model 500, witch i happen to own. for $ 103 the wife wont mind, and it takes up no extra room. but nobody seems to know anything about them.:(

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

Well it depends on which lower priced one for a starter, I have seen some CVA for instance that had excellant barrels and shot well the material and the quality of the maching is not usually very comparable, on the other hand I bought a TC Omega Z 5for $150 and its an excellant weapon with a fine trigger and shoot sub 1 inch groups just like it came out of the box.
ITS NOT WHAT YOU PAY BUT WHAT YOU GET FOR YOUR MONEY. Lee

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

All I can tell you is the same thing was asked about a long time ago and no one really knew too much about them then. Remember that black powder is a fowling powder and any trace of the fowling has to be cleaned or your shotgun receiver will rust. Also, would that be considered a closed system? How do you load the 209 primer? You must have to pull the barrel to remove the breech plug I am guessing.

Good luck with the barrel should you get it. We would like to learn more about it as well. I think the last person simply bought a bottom of the line CVA and left the shotgun to do what it was designed to do.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

thank you, this is the responce i was looking for. this information i can pass along to the " bank" and convince her that a new gun is in order because it will ruin the one that i have. and yes i think it is a closed system with some kind of "pick" to get the spent primer out. no problem sales aplenty right now so i'll watch the flyers.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

That's not a bad looking rifle either...

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

Don't forget the use ML option in the local Want Ads. They can usually be gotten for about 1/2 the price of a new one and only shot 1 season. Also these folks sell a lot of used guns and reports are that they are great to deal with:

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/813usedblkpowderguns.htm

I bought my Thompson Center FL on gun broker for 1/2 cost of new and the gun was like new.

Chap Gleason

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

isnt underclocked selling a stainless steel NEF, remington and an encore?

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

I have a Huntsman which is the same (almost) as the NEF Sidekick. Nice rifle however; the ramrod is a little wimpy and I replace mine with the aftermarket one that is available $25 and the plastic primer carriers are a little questionable so I replaced them with the .25ACP conversion another $60 plus the stuff to load the primersin the .25 brass if you are not a reloader. Now you are talking about the price of the new Knight Rolling Block. I just got one $301 delivered and it was the stainless one. Blue would be a little less. That gives you all the rifle you will ever need and the long barrel will allow you to shoot up to 200 yards with a lot of practice. The stock on the NEF will not work with a scope so you would have to get the raised comb stock also. The Knight KRB works either way with the stock it comes with. I scoped mine and it is perfect, have not shot it yet but there is a big powder shoot out in the latest American Rifleman and he used the same Knight KRB.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

I have 4 bp's now. The most accurate is also the cheapest. If I could get a Traditions that has a trigger as sweet as my TC's I'd never hunt with anything else. The Traditions I have is a $99 from Natchez Buckhunter Inline. Groups anything I give it well with almost any powder. My 2 TC's are much much nicer guns...but they wont group as well. I am comparing an inline to sidelocks though...not sure how much difference that should make.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

natchez has cva's remingtons and traditions on sale,they also have powerbelts on sale cheap . 50pack 295 hp copper $21.30

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

Go down thepawnshop and buy a niced used CVA in-line. A Stag Horn is a good one to start with.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

Yes he has, the NEF or Remington would be in the price range he is looking at. Chap

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

I bought a CVA Wolf Magnum last year killed 2 deer(1st at 170yd and the 2nd at 190). Able to handle the magnum loads safely. Great gun out to 180 or 200 yds. Remember that its all aboutfinding the right load for your gun and you.That may take time but people in this forum are usually more than willing to help out a beginner. Just ask em.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

Sold the Remington already, the Encore and Huntsman both require FFL so that might be a bit of a problem. I'm not really pushing the sale of either too hard and it's no biggee if they stay in my rack. :D

But thanks for thinking of me... I appreciate it.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

Wow, 3 pages already.

Saw an add in a local farm and home type store for a CVA wolf mag for $130. It was one model I was already looking at so it might be a go. I'm really just looking for something to get started into blackpowder. I grew up hunting/shooting so the skills are fairly sharp, I'm just used to loading my weapons from the other end of the barrell.:D

Thanks a bunch, I'll try and stop back in pretty soon.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

il coyote, I've got a Wolf I bought last Christmas new in the box for $100. If you want something to start with the Wolf is fine. I'm gettinggood three shot groups at 50 yards and 1.5 inches at 100.I've been using Knight Red Hot 300 gr with Crushed Rib Sabots, 2 50grPyrodex pellets, and Remington Kleen Bore 209 primers. My Wolf shoots also well with loose Pyrodex RS but I'm going to use pellets to hunt with this year. I haven't found a bullet that "won't" shoot well out of it. Powerbelt, Sabertooths, Hornaday XTP's all have worked great. I also have a Nikon Pro Staff 2x7x32. Picture below is a group from 50 yards.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

my bother in law and his son both have the cva wolf. they seem to like them. my bother in law his for christmas last year we paid $179 at kmart it came with a starter kit. his son got one last week with a scope for $225 at a local gun shop.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

Just picked up a Wolf new in the box last week for $125 from a dealer that had taken it in trade. Tried it Sunday and it shot well with the Shockwaves I had with me. Since I can't have a variable scope in Wisconsin for muzzleloader season, it will be my gun for that hunt. My Kodiak is scoped.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

From the pictues below and the threads below, that would be a great starter MLer. Sounds like the Shockwave would be an excellent bullet in it also. You need some powder, bulletsand cleaning stuff also, that will cost at least another $70. So your right at your $200 price point. Best wishes as you start learning this shooting sport.
Chap Gleason

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

That's why I put a T/C 1X scope on one inline and a RED DOT on a different one. No magnification might not help me see further, but the + sure helps me hit what I shoot at.. It gives me a constant aiming point.

RE: sub $200 ML's?
 

I like the CVA Wolf & may have to find some hiding place so that I can get one, Wally World has em on sale pretty inexpensive.

My inexpensive ML is my Traditions Yukon @ $110.00 + tax & it shoots those 240gr. .44 XTP's in the standard black sabot, a 30gr. & a 50gr.777 pelets,& Winchester 209 primer makes a nice load out to 100 yards, plenty for Deer in my woods.