|
Great Morning in the Rock Pit
But nothing to show for it!
The 10th is coming quickly and still not ready to go... but this morning I thought I would run out and shoot a little bit. Trying very hard to avoid Seminsane's rules - I decided to take the Tikka out and make sure it would be ready if I decided to use it on a special hunt in December, but then I also thought I would take the White as a second gun and something else to shoot. With the 300 Win Mag - didn't see much use in setting targets @ 100 so I walked around to the upper level of the pit and set out7 pigeons from 125 yards to 150 yards. Loaded up 3 rounds in the 300 popped the first one @ 125 so I moved to the 150 pop bang... one more shot so I took the one @ 130 pop bang... 3 shots 3 broken targets in less than 2 minutes.... BORING. Did not even set up the bench just laid a blanket on the hood of the pich-up and shot across it. So I decided to go to the White - sense the rules would apply now sense I did not take the White as the initial shooter and I was not setting up to shoot a great target just having fun. I had decided that 3 shots from the White was the max I was going to shoot, even though there was still4 targets out there,that would have the barrel and BPlug set for hunting season. Popped a couple of primers and dry pushed in and out a Windex patch, and then a dry patch. That took 5 minutes longer than and more enjoyable than 2 minutes of shooting the mag. Loaded up the first round - 110 grains T7-2f, .452/250 grain Gold Dot in a MMP HPH12 - ignited with a Win T7 primer ( I am saving my Remington 209-4's for hunting season). Picked the 2nd 125 yard target and MISSED - I was just over the top - but the bullet hit where I was aiming - I thought I was allowing for drop... Got the range finder out the target was @ 124 yards but it was up 11 degrees from the hood of the truck. Loaded up the second round - held right on - bang-pop -> target gone. 3 targets left -> loaded up my 3rd and last round and decided to take the 150 yard target. This time I lasered it first 148 yards + 13 degrees... now to the learnered shooter this is suppose to mean something to me... I decided heck what worked last time will work again - held right on the target - pop/bang gone. I really was feeling good about these shots, even the first shot which would have been a kill shot on a big game animal. Walked to the back of the truck and on the walk back I could see those last two targets waaay up there in the rocks..... one more shot will not matter right? ok - load up measure target @ 132 yards + 11 degrees. Dang - I mean bang and the pigeon was gone - I mean I could not even see any pieces.... walk back to the tailgate of the pick up and you know there is no way I can walk away from that last bird... Anyway like I said NOTHING I can show you guys - I left everything in the rock pit.... Gees! it was a fun outing... Sorry you missed it c-dad- NOT! Got home ran three windex patches a dry patch and one final windex patch a couple of dry patches then a Slip 2000 patch with very little lube on it then 2 dry patches... it will stay that way until and through hunting season.... I am ready, well as far as the gun is concerned - nothing else is ready but the Whiteis.. |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Good shooting. Lee
|
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Sounds like an excellent day at the range.. good shooting.
|
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Don't you miss the spitting, cursing, and bleeding you have surely encountered with other muzzleloaders? :D ;)
|
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
ifn ur talken to me - eze got goodns (ML's)- i doant do none of dat dar stuff... eye hav AFLAC... pays when u caint work... |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Read your post earlier and it inspired me to head to the range instead of chasing deer with them pointy little sticks this evening.
Too dang hot to hunt deer, and almost too hot to enjoy shooting the muzzleloader, but the key word in that statement is almost. Actually shooting the muzzleloader is always fun. Forces a person to slow down and enjoy life! :D BTW - A hunting buddy had his Rem. 300 Win Mag at the range last week. That cartridge sure takes the excitement out of trying to shoot good groups. One ragged hole at 100 yards. A very accurate round for sure! |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
wabi
I hate the heat when hunting... We have a terrible yellow jacket problem and in the heat you never know who is going to get more meat the yellow jackets or yourself... BTW - A hunting buddy had his Rem. 300 Win Mag at the range last week. That cartridge sure takes the excitement out of trying to shoot good groups. One ragged hole at 100 yards. A very accurate round for sure! |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
I can tell you when it isn't fun... when it's 90º and 98% humidity and your first shot results in a 209 stuck so bad you have to disassemble your rifle and use pliers to get the thing out. Then the second and subsequent shots are just as bad... $#%$ Lot's of expletives that day.
Wanna guess why I don't like the White Thunderblot? |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
Coming from here in Idaho to something like that "when it's 90º and 98% humidit" No way I could survice let alone worry about a stuck 209.. That sounds miserable... |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
I HAD to go shooting that day. Danged if I'm doing that again with any rifle. Shortly after was when I learned those few of us early owners were to solve the rifles problems. I solved two and thus far have heard of nobody being killedbya Thunderblot at least.
When you pay $600+ dollars for a rifle, you don't anticipate being a pre-production tester on a rifle already in production. It's the kind of scenario you might expect to encounter if a bead salesman was running the company. [:@] Chit! Ah'z steel cussin'. :D |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
OK just got back form Doc's site - I had to go look what a Thunderbolt is/was - I actually like the looks of that gun...  Do you still have that gun? I think it would be a great canidate for a 25acp... other than the sticky 209 BP how did it shoot? The original BP I got with my U-Mag was a bear after about 5 or 6 shots, but with the new BP no problems.... |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Aside from all it's issues, the rifle is VERY heavy. Heck no, I finally got the boys in Utah to fix me up with a 98 in a 91 stock and got a bit of refund as well. I still have the 98 and it's a great rifle. Even the .25 ACP would probably be too long for the White breechplug (andy you are familiar with the White 209 breech plugs). Take a look at one of yours and see what you think. Doc thought along those same lines but had to Doc'izeand so created the 336 ignition system, which does help immensely I'm told.
 His version uses the .32 S&W Short case which is about 1/1000" shorter case length than the .25ACP but perhaps a better rim. I don't know if that plug has a concave on the powder end but you can see there isn't much room left for metal along the flame channel. |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Underclocked
Doc thought along those same lines but had to Doc'izeand so created the 336 ignition system Was it much heavier than the U-Mag... |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
No, it's the .32 S&W short case. Probably a pound heavier than the Umag with a laminated stock.
|
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
No, it's the .32 S&W short case. Probably a pound heavier than the Umag with a laminated stock. |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Doc could probably fix you up and he might even do an ACP case since you are already set up for those. Might have to shorten some cases a bit to gain some metal around the fire channel.
ps: does the head of an ACP case even fit inside the opening on a UMag 209 hammer? And I don't know if the standard spring would be enough to keep the case from trying to blow back out at you. And I don't know if there would be room for a standard case to be inserted/removed (doubtful). I think you would be talking major re-design. |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
I don't think you want to do that with a UMag, the TBolt uses the bolt to lock the 32 case into place and prevents it from setting back when fired, plus the TBolt has a fireing pin instead of a bump on the hammer plunger. Without that bolt holding the case in place it would likely fly out the back creating much danger to the shooter. Be carefull.
|
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
smurf, ah wuz tipin while u wuz postun.
|
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
I am e-mailing him right now to see about getting the conversion and whether I can adapt it to a U-mag. I think the 32 short might be a better shell in the limited space if the it is shorter than the 25.... Gotta go look it up is a 32 short different than a 32acp? I have figured out is is a different shell but I can not find any measurements on it at all... Even using Randy "O" ring as the method to hold it in place....  |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
goatbrother
I agree with the thought but i do not think that would be a problem... The A&H is built somewhat on the same design. Randy's 32 H&R Mag conversion works very well in it. When you close the bolt on the A&H nothing touchesthe shell until you drop the hammer on to the shell. I wish I had the gun here to show you what I am talking about but my son-in-law thought I had to many inlines so he borrowed it 3 years ago. If you look at the picture you can see he uses a rubber"O" to hold the shell in place while hunting + it would allow the venting of any gasses that were to get by the shell. It is very effective in the A&H.. I believe Doc's heavy duty spring would have no problem handling thepressure of the shell coming back. it certainly holds a 209 in place without any hint of coming out of the 209 cavity. As long as the flash holeremains the standard I see no real problem with back pressure + remember the case will absorb some and expand up against the walls of the BP and then release as it cools.. I included a picture of the A&H BP in one of these posts as well as over in DWB's where there was a brief discussion of this point. I have sent an e-mail to Doc aboutmy thoughts... |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
Question: How much blow back do get with a #11 installed - would it still get after my scope and does it soot up the breech area?/ ps: does the head of an ACP case even fit inside the opening on a UMag 209 hammer? And I don't know if the standard spring would be enough to keep the case from trying to blow back out at you. And I don't know if there would be room for a standard case to be inserted/removed (doubtful). I think you would be talking major re-design. The amount blow back is controlled by the size of the fire channel (flash hole). Currently I can fire a really stiff load from my White and it does not even come close to disloging the the 209 primer... Doc has even suggested I am a whimp and should shoot a stiffer load and a much heavier bullet - but I will pass... For safey a vent hole could also be installed in the BP as Randy has done with his. You can not beleive how much cleaner the A&H is with his setup. The real problem is there is just to little area in the breech area to insert the shell with your fingers.... especially with a scope mounted. Kind of interested in what Dos says...  |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Yep, considerable sooting and blowback with 11s both scope and action. A better solution would be to cut the case length of a .25 ACP by about 1/3 to 1/2. I think it would still work fine and be much easier to handle. One session at trimming cases could keep a fellow going for a long time. A couple of hundred cases would last indefinitely? Have you had to trash any yet?
You should be able to find the .32 S&W dimensions on this page about 2/3 down the page.. http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm It isn't listed as short but that should be it - given the long is below. I think Doc chose it over some others perhaps because of the rim making the casing easier to handle/extract. I've considered a .25 ACP for both my G2 and Encores but have so far avoided the temptation. I have Hornet plugs for the Encore and don't use them as they aren't worth the aggravation. Does that case fit the 209 bolt face well enough to positive ignition on the primer in the case. I have a 209 hammer or two but don't want to dig them out. I WOULD like for YOU to pursue this idea though. ;) |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
OK according to the chart you provided... 25 ACP -> Casing lgth.62" Rim Diameter .298 32 Short Colt-> Casing lgth .65Rim Diameter .377 32 S&W ->Casing lgth .61Rim Diameter .375 It really does look like the 25 ACP would be the best casing. Right now of course the 25 ACP is to large in diameter to go down into a 209 aperture. But using this casing would require less loss of metal. The 32 would requirea larger hole. A better solution would be to cut the case length of a .25 ACP by about 1/3 to 1/2. Have you had to trash any yet? dimensions on this page about 2/3 down the page.. I've considered a .25 ACP for both my G2 and Encores but have so far avoided the temptation. Does that case fit the 209 bolt face well enough to positive ignition on the primer in the case. I have a 209 hammer or two but don't want to dig them out. I WOULD like for YOU to pursue this idea though. My concern is the size of the flash hole in the end of the BP as compared to the size of the flash hole under the 209... The case fits just perfect into a 209 capper  |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
e-mail message back from DOC...
For the 336 to work as designed, it has to be backed by a bolt or closed action. Your problem with the U-Mag is that the 336 may well come flying out of the orifice and touch some part of your anatomy. Haven't tried it yet, so can't really say and am unwilling to take the risk. DOC |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Kinda thought that might be his reaction.
|
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Quit bein tupid and jus use #11s! Ah knowd you's hard heeded butt, give me a break!!!:eek:
 |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
What it really comes down to, for me, is the size of the flash hole in the end of the BP - It is really big - it will allow a lot of pressure back.... no if that hole were the size of the 209 flash hole it would all come together. Comparing the powder side flash hole on the A&H BP it is even smaller than the flash under the 209 cap in the White BP... Blow back has to be contained on that side of the breech plug not in it or through it. Even it I were to have a machinist build what I think I need I still would be looking at trying to load them in the small area.... I think I am talking myself out of it.... C-dad what are you going to do... you know you created him sort like the "crud ring." When I first met him before he became a DWB - he was a really nice guy in love with his family now look at him....DWB's has changed his whole life. |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
c-dad
All I can say and in the words of our immortal leader - shuddup! |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Where there is a will, there is a way. The nose of the plug could be made to extend into the bore by just a wee bit, maybe 1/4" or so would be sufficient and that would give considerable metal to run a smaller flash hole. Might even get creative and leave space for a full wrap of teflon on the "nose". :)
Heck, let's get Woodgoat to make one. :D |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
Getting Woodgoat to make one is a real thought... He could use on of my A&H plugs for an example. I am not sure about extending the nose into the barrel to far - I think that is one of the reasons Toby blew-up that Savage powder was getting lodged between the the nose of the Savage BP and the walls of the barrel... course that was smokless where a little bit goes a long ways.... With BP or a sub it really should not make that kind of difference... I am headed out on scouting mission right now (I want to see if I can make a bull mad enough)- this afternoon or this evening I want to try putting a 25 ACP in the capper again and see if it will go down in the space between the BP and hammer face. |
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Sorry SL, I lost control for a minute. Best of luck with your project. Hope it all works. Hope it helps ya kill a trophy and all that stuff. Hope it doesn't blow you up. But, if it does, sure hope Terry gives me a good deal on a Renegade.
UC, stop it, I know your just trying to blow Mike up! |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:23 PM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.