Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

This is a follow-up to myfour load comparison covered in an earlier post usingHarvester Crush Rib sabots, 300grain Speer Gold Dots, and four different powder charges. http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2337091

Thanks to sabotloader, I had a sample pack of a number of different sabots. I decided to stick with the same bullets and the best shooting powder charge from that experiment, and try all of the different sabots with thatcombination. The results were interesting. Groups ranges from 5 & 3/4" to 1 & 7/8" at 100 yards. Velocities varied, but not as much as I expected.Targets are posted below (from largest group to smallest)for your viewing pleasure.

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

HPH 3 Petal EZ Load

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

HPH-24

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

HPH-12

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

Harvester Crush Ribs

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Harvester "Short"

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Harvester "Long"

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

That is really interesting because of the difference a simple sabot can make on group size. I guess I have to pay more attention to sabots again... great test.

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

Have you tried that rifle with full-bore conicals? ;)

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

Funny you should ask, Underclocked.

I'veshot one - and only one -target with Hornady 410 grain Great Plains over 120 grains Pyrodex and got an 8" five-shot group at 100 yards. The group had one bad flyer, with four of the shots into 3" (target below). My chronograph was out of commission at the time, so I don't know the velocity. It was a "stiff" load for sure.

The only other conicals I've shot were a few 250 grain REALs that average 2" at 50 yards. Never did a serious work up with them either.

Before I got my 25 ACP breech plug it seemed I would have a flyer in almost every five-shot group. That's not happening any more and I sure need to give conicals another try with a variety of loadings (so many possibilities - so little time). I got the Mustangafter last year's hunting season so I've haven't used it for hunting yet. All of my ML deer over the last 15 years have been killed with a TC New Englander and Great Plains 410s. It sure is a deadly bullet and deserves a better trial in the Mustang.

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

cayugad,when looking for a load for the Triumph I tried MMPHPH12 they were so tight I could not load with out pounding them down,MMP-HPH24 loadedok shot 1.5 to 1.75,tried Crush Ribs they shot .75 to 1.2 inch.
This was using 250gr Gold Dot and 100 777-FF with Win standard Primer. I also conducted a swith primer test trying Win 777 primers and 209 standard primer could not tell any differance in residue[the Triumph dont crudring]
Though you might find this interesting,I have come to the conclusion that with a lot of guns the right sabot is more critical than the brand of bullet. Lee

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

I've noticed the same thing, my rifle likes the older T/C 250 Shockwaves, didn't like the sabots Hornady packed with their bullets or the MMP-24s...

For what its worth...My .54 caliber flintlock is just as particular with patch material as well....

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

If you try that Great Plains again, humor me and weight sort the bullets and weigh the powder charges equivalent to90 grains by volume. An overpowder wad wouldn't hurt either. :)

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

This totally fits with my experience in shooting my new Savage and also some things I learned myself and what folks say over on the "Savage Smokeless board". "The tighter the sabot, the tighter the group." Smokeless powder is harder to ignite, in particular 4198 is more difficult to ignite that 5744. I could NOT get 4198 to go off with the supplied sabot from Parker in a Ballistic Extreme. Once I switch to the tighter MMP12 sabot,I could get the 4198 to fire. I also LEARNED that you have to put your weight into smokeless after hitting the bottom and seating the bullet. I was also NOT doing that. I also learned that primers make a big difference, with Winchester 209 being the hottest/best, I was using Remington Kleen bore, and they get "Kleen" by lesseningthe charge in the primer. All these are factors in Smokeless,they are less so forignition in regular inlines, but sabots makes a huge difference as you have found out. Thanks fortaking the time to do this Semisane, your getting saner and saner, at least on this forum, maybe not at home. Chap gleason

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

Check out the experiment this fellow did with Primers:

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thre ad=1190323548

Great info, expecially for smokeless powder, which is harder to ignite that BP or subs.
Chap Gleason

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

OK Underclocked, I'll do that next week end, but will have to use some 385 grainGreat Plains that I have on hand - I'm out of 410s. Will shoot three 5-shot groups, one each with Triple Seven, Pyrodex, and American Pioneer.

Do you want me to stick with90 grains volume for the 385s?

Are you sure about the overpowder wads? I have some .510" diameter, 1/16" thickCircle Fly vegetable fiber wads that I soaked with Lee Liquid Alox and dried in the sun. They work great under Lee REALs, but I've never tried them under GPs. Always thought you shouldn't use wads under hollow base bullets like the GPs.

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

I agree with that statement 100%. In fact I am so convinced of it, that I printed Semisane experiment and put it on my web site here:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/Do%20Sabots%20Make%20a%20Difference%20in%20an%20in line--experiment%20by%20SemiSane%20same%20bullet,%20same %20powder%20different%20sabots.pdf

so I could refer to it. I also put the NIC_58 Primer Test on it:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Primers%20by%20NIC_58%20on%20Doug's%20Savage%20Boa rd.pdf

because they are huge for smokeless and also placed the Sabotloader how to makeWindex Swabs for Crud ring:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/Sabot%20Loaders%20Windex%20swabing%20procedures%20 with%20pictures%20for%20crud%20ring%20using%20777. pdf

Chap Gleason

Chap Gleason

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

Shoot, I had forgotten the Great Plains bullet is hollow based! Belay that request.

But yes pleaseon the 90 grains. :)

RE: Range Experiment - Same Load / Six Different Sabots
 

OkeeDoekee, no wad & 90 GV. Already have the targets prepared and thepowder weighed out (90 grain volume equivalent).