RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

Tell it to the judge, Moebedda, and just hope he's a Savage shooter. :D I guess it's all in how 'ya read it.

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

Let's examine the wording here.

"Muzzleloading Deer Seasons
During the December muzzleloading seasons, muzzleloading deer hunters can carry afield and use only a muzzleloading rifle, a muzzleloading shotgun, or a black power handgun loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute."


The savage is a muzzleloading rifle. You can shoot blackpowder, a pyrodex type substtitue, or substitute smokelss for it.

Smokeless is also commerically manufactuered. It appears to fall within the rules. I suppose you can interpret that a little differently if you wanted to, but the wording does not omit smokeless as a viable substitute.

I don't see where the problem is.

I can't see a CO making me unload my gun to see which type of powder I am using. It's obviously a muzzleloader. The ramrod gives that away.

I won't have to unload it and clean it after every hunt, and will last forever. I could leave it loaded all season and clean it after the season is done technically(hopefully I will be shooting though)? Is that recomended?

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

why then does it not simply say "commercially manufactured powder"? Think you best ask someone ?? before laying down the cash. The Savage is a real pain with Pyrodex (so I'm told).

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

Dont push colorado laws. You get busted, they have the right the take everything in your camp and write you a nice ticket to add insult. IMO, if you want to shoot smokeless, thats what a centerfire is there for.

As for michigan laws, It sounds like blackpowder or blackpowder subs are only legal. If smokeless powder was legal, it would have been mentioned.

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

I hunt Michigan and you CANNOT use smokeless during the muzzleloader season, period. Unless you plan on using the Savage only for the general gun season or out of state, you're wasting your money.

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

I just found this looking into this further. HOUSE BILL 4554

I hope this passes. Everyone in this state knows that our DNR could not manage thier way out of a wet paper bag, let alone our deer herd. They all should be fired IMO. But thats a different topic for a different time and on different forums.

I also found this post in regards to this Bill by member rsdrmh who attended the commitee meeting about this bill. He brought up some valid points one of which I will quote below.

How can it be enforced? The law is unclear and not specific enough. There is nothing that clearly defines what constitutes a "substitute". In my eyes, smokeless could be considered a "substitute" in a Savage and is not against the law according to how it is written. I would be willing to challenge this in a court of law if it comes to that.

I would be interested to see if anyone has got a ticket for using smokeless in Michigan during a muzzleloading season. My money would be on NO. I seriously doubt they are enforcing this. I just tried multiple google searches and found zero records.

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

Moebedda the way I read it.. smokeless powder use would be illegal. Whether a warden is going to make you unload your rifle.. who knows what them people will do. I think if Michigan is the main state I was going to hunt with this rifle, at this time I would pass on the Savage, or wait until smokeless is permitted. Wisconsin recently went and allowed smokeless. It took another forum member to point that out to me as I was certain it was illegal.

I was always under the impression that Savage rifles shot Triple Se7en well and with no problem...

Call a warden and ask them. They usually don't know the answer if they are like the ones around here, but it is nice to confuse them.:D

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

You've sparked an interest. I got out of the woods this morning from bowhunting and started doing some research. I came accross this which explains many of the commerical black powder substitutes that we are using today.

So basically what this is saying is. Some brillant marketing guy at Savage needs to take the some of the popular smokeless powders used in the 10ML and "re-label" them as a "black powder substitute used ONLY in Savage muzzleoaders" and all should be good.

That probably will make this gun legal in all 50 states. The fact that Michigan allows Pyrodex, American Pioneer, Triple Se7en, or flammable pellets or sticks, they are already allowing smokeless propellants as classified by the United States Department of Transportation (Class 1.3 hazardous materials). You are allowed to use these propellants in Michigan simply because they say "Black Powder Substitute" on the label.

Quite amusing actually.

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

Colorado clearly states No Smokeless powder in their game book and website.

If Doegirl hunts michigan and states that smokeless is not legal, dont try bending the rules and ruining it for everyone else who follows the rules.

RE: Lyman Mustang opinions??
 

did you actually read what I posted? Maybe you should.

A majority of people in mighigan use propellants such as Pyrodex, 777, pellets and whatnot. They are all breaking the law. or are they? According to the United States Department of Transportation (Class 1.3 hazardous materials), they are considered smokeless propellants, therefore breaking the law, yet they advertise on thier packaging "black powder substitute" and are thus accepted in this state as a susbstitute. It doesn't state anywhere the chemical make up of a "black powder substitute", nor does it say you cannot substitute non-branded smokeless powders. Smokeless is smokeless wheather your using Pyrodex or Accurate Arms 5744. I don't even think this is regulated at all. I think it is an unwritten rule that as long as it says "black powder susbstitute" on the package, it's legal to use, which is why I am challenging the wording of the regulation.

Can u use Pyrodex in CO?

Does anyone know, or is there a another federal agency that determines what is considered a "black powder substitute" Maybe look on your Pyrodex cans. All of my cans are the real stuff.